Posted by Farmer on July 23, 2010 at 13:29:43
In Reply to: Re: Comments and suggestions...some frustrations posted by Coordinator on July 22, 2010 at 14:24:16:
"I see you are offended about the shutdown matter, which was handled through a private email sent to you, which you did not reply to, by the way..."
I need to respond to every email?Would be ideal...I am fairly busy...I assume you have not much spare time either...I felt, I just needed to "obey" the technicalities & I did so far, why not?...for how would I have guessed and avoided the problems anyway before that???
"can't think how we could have put it in more polite tones".
Just business-lingo..how they handle complaints in the commercial-communication sector (Frankly I shrink at such wordings...when it obviously is not the utmost truth to me)..you just lack either skill or imagination or both...and a reality-problem...won't address that anymore...people who are "blind" to certain things can only be helped by "surgery" or miracle...which I don't offer....I have a problem with people who always whitewash their own side...it reminds me of TFI and the world...both I have no special liking for...hope you're not shocked...there'd be a remedy for all that however.
The casual comment of not understanding something, yours as well, I figure...is to my understanding sometimes an easier way as to say either:
1) I have no time to wade through your drivel...to understand things...as you yourself had not enough time/did not take enough time to explain it in better English
2) I rather understand you...but I have a hard time admitting it and agreeing to it (probably not your case)...therefore a lie
3) What you say is BS...but I have not the time nor the courage to tell you frankly
4)Or.. even with very intellegent people like you..it's an honest admission...that's/was my prejudice (I couldn't dig/presume, that you weren't intelligent enough to read/understand either directly or between the lines, what I said...minus all the Grammar errors etc...in speed reading you pass by quickly also a lot of the semantic specialities as well...to get the core-meaning) that's why I "turned up the heat", even now...because I can't stand hypocrisy in the end....and a lack of clarity as well...but mind you...I am not a pensionists...I have a job...taxing one...and family as well...so some things are spelled out sloppy...I'd agree...but you should also try to see the lack of conclusiveness in your thoughts as well...otherwise..."it'd scare me" ; )
To your points in the latest post:
1) There are many posters...me included...which just add to the angle...range beyond of the original poster...meanwhile a "sin"??
So I come back to my "accusation": all bias??
(and the manners??...I can imagine worse stuff...you don't??...have seen it...and read it...)
In other words...all posts from now on have to be straight to the point...adding nothing "fresh" (or "offensive", your take in this instance)...otherwise one could be barred???...can't be : (...that's not what you meant???(For what is true for one poster, must be true for others too...right???)
Otherwise, I for sure won't appear here anymore...cause that is a rubber-band-law/point of view...being able to be stretched into all kinds of directions as you please....
what I considered abrasive language...
right: it's relative...apparently the GP is not really ready for your take yet (by my, admitted, very little survey), ...so why do you target then an EXer!!! (emphasis) ...to my understanding: not a member...rather giving the proverbial benefit of the doubt here.
belittling someone's concerns...
is that already an offense in your books???Much is relative...people should be entitled to their take...
Best in the whole thread as an advise would have been (I thought about it later, when the thread got already "stale") to ask whether: "you attend a school?or learn a job?/profession" and "do you have a liscense to sell the balloons" (if at all needed...depends on the government)...that often settles any discomfort" with TFI
Some Ex-SGAs seemed pretty happy about the recent changes...you noticed that...didn't you?...we FGAs..me included were more sceptical...uncomfortable...now one could argue: ..this guy is just selling a balloon (better, than Mo-letters!!!!!)...trying to make a living...better he'd have a license...same old problem...same happens in Italy with all the Maroccans selling at the beach...so what is our problem with the selling though???...It's kind of a skill...a job...and our problem with that???(If he/she is unhappy with that...one should leave)
Not much really for me (if a license is needed it should be provided and that's where TFI from experience won't comply with laws or rules, sad to say)...except...he could rather be in school..learn a job...no idea, what he/ she really wants...but someone/a poster voiced a stance which is not that far from some more prominent EXSGAs' stance...of being happy with the recent changes...so that would sound to me a bit like double-standard or not???
The thread appeared after the recent changes, right???
Please clarify, if you don't see a conflict there...different perception.
2) Please point out also to me (but others as well!!) all my deficiencies ..I would like to have many earthly beings to constantly guide me and direct me...for we earthlings know everything so much better, especially about the other...I admit, this is sarcasm, may be at the limit...
I tell you what: Germany had/has it with "oversight"...east (dictatorship) or west and much more @70 years ago...TFI believed in "oversight" ...and it seems to me for now you have retained more than IMO needed at times, like especially in this case (I faintly remember you said, you worked in WS for some time...sorry...no real personal attack...but oversight there was even more mandatory, no???) ...just my take...but we don't have to agree on everything??...to post on the boards??...Sometimes I fancy disagreements...my part of freedom after TFI and a once very stuffy old Germany...sorry if you're now on the receiving end.
If you have the point 2 - take in life...you won't be finished very soon...because people make mistakes right and left...not just in TFI...I wonder, if you noticed...and back to my assumption: just bias??!!...singling out a moderate pro TFI-stance...by an Exer (emphasis)...but I rather have an honest pro-TFI-statement...& if some are scared here...I am not...for I won't be swayed in my anti-stance...only I believe in dialogue...having no dialogue...like in politics (greetings from the middle east) can be or is considered dangerous.
5&6 Repeating, and falsely, a point makes flawed logic not better..
I say it once again...
(see for more details also also my direct comments of your original post below...)
since the term is generally accepted...
[less "sexist" would be: before you get your T-shirt in a twist...your coat (doesn't apply for hot summer ; ) though )...but not your "bra" (I figure it's more difficult to get that in a complete twist anyway???...just an assumption]
...and though it may not be directly an euphemism...but just a simple analogy..something very simple out of life.... and fact is I don't use it, never did... neither did I hear it while in TFI (That's where I read that MO-stuff and it didn't cause me to use that lingo... super-emphasis here..., cause according to your logic!!! (I refer to your initial quote at the bottom of my post here...if need be I spell it out even more, quoting it...your answer simply is: false!!!) , it should/could have easily circled as a term in TFI and I was in it for 16 years...@7 years on fields with predominantly English communication...TFI being loaded otherwise with sexistic remarks!!!!!)...could you also accept a "near-defeat" in your reasoning?...
instead you!!! run your circles...that is your problem not mine...("bear got himself into that circle...now...)
"Personally, I find it amazing that anybody would have such a hard time with a simple rule about no religion on genX. Talk all you want about TFI-doctrine, but if you wish you answer to it in a religious context, move it over to Journeys. Examples:"
I have no problem with amazing you, am I really??...so what???
"that anybody would have such a hard time with a simple rule about no religion on genX"...now you're referring to me??...then you must be really thick/dense at the moment???....really sorry!!...I said, told you..where I can see some difference/problem...
And since you explained it now (kind of agreeing with me, that religion can be mentioned in a, let's say, objective manner)...it makes it clear by these/your examples...may be you do live in GB (besides the knickers-controversy)...where much of the civil law seems to originate on the example-based-method...it's clearer now through your examples...but if you'd say, that I didn't have any point in asking first, then you amaze me as well..
the board-rules read as such:
"Religion-free board: It is safe to assume that no member can come away from their COG experience without re-examining his/her belief system - there are just so many things to sort out. We recognize that many members once exiting the Family have naturally become hesitant about their faith - if they have any left to salvage. Many want to distance themselves from any talk of religion whatsoever. With this in mind, we wish to offer a place where eXers can discuss their ideas, hopes, despairs and aspirations freely and not feel compelled to relate everything religiously. We realize that for some, this is a very necessary and required space. If you wish to discuss issues of a religious or spiritual nature, please use the Journeys board"
...that some folks also complained too easily on GenX (latest, songs with salvation message)...you included...sorry for that...
and sorry...I simply wanted to say:the MO-letters happen to be religious!!!!...so this is a classical paradox!!!...like a Cretian saying all Cretes are liars ...I wonder...why you didn't catch on/hop on my simple remark/question in the first place??...then it is your duty to reword it/clarify it, like you do now...
(My take..personal one was always!!!...there must be a board, where we can discuss things/policies of TFI, which heavily affected our lives...since many policies happened to be religious-based...it seemed to me a contradiction since long for GenX...but you don't seem to want to give me any credit at all for at least trying to clarify that... : ( )
So you clarified that now and kind of blame me for bringing up the leeway/loopholes/conflicts/contradictions you have in the rules and the daily practice????......resulting in crashes/clashes...unless you change the board-set up...what is this?...another bias of yours...towards me???
I would be very much for a total ..."100 % ...110%!!!..no, now make it 140%...nah 200%" religious-free zone on exfamily org...like GenX...no MO- letter discussion (no temptations!!!...for the "ill-guided-religious freaks")...nothing...my preference...that would be so simple, anybody can understand it...zero-tolerance
...for if GenX had to be totally clear of that...then I suggested Academics could be broadened for that...a total stupid suggestion?? (At least then people would know, that the mentioning of a 3 letter word could occur there either in a quote or a comment)...ok...I can live with that...your board...also your problems...sorry...I know it ain't easy...I am thankful...but these crashes "nerve" me as a reader...am I allowed to say that???
If you don't like my suggestions or it's too troublesome ...fine with me
...but please try to see/agree...that the problems happen on GenX!!!!...may be in the past also on Soap box...
for me board-traffic-problems have similarities with normal vehicle-traffic-problems...you got to have a license, obeying to rules...the government has to provide the space and prosecutes offenders...plus regulates through rules the traffic
For me it meant now:...providing the space...to avoid crashes...you can hardly rule them out completely, but to always resort to: oh you could have simply with a button shifted things to journeys..., that's as nice as the government treats offenders:...you just obey the rules or.......right! ....(now this becomes almost a religious subject, how to obey the good laws??)...I understand Don..without completely excusing him here...at times, in the heat of things, you forget about the rules...so what?...then pls delete and threaten to bar the offender(s) for some time... did happen...happens on other boards and here too... so???
Plus I "hate" (too lazy for that at times) this hopping around from board to board (also interrupts the flow)...just for some weak "brothers and sisters"...to post something...:pls read my silly little comment on journeys...sorry ..my simple take...then rather no religious talk 0... zero...nil...no quoting either.(therewith no temptation)...
(My m a i n!!!!!!!! beef by the way was with having no special space/rather uncommented!!!! for the victims...like on movingon!!!!...and for that I would gladly "sacrifice" soap-box!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
And imagine my great flexibility/tolerance...I would also further welcome any atheist on journeys (of course it's just a joke...your board...you do invite via platform and rules)...discussing their "other faith"/and the lack of the other...and I would gladly be barred from GenX should I have bad reflexes, like Don showed in a "weak moment"..
If your answers happen to be that casual...sometimes offensive...also praising illwanted a supposed intellegence of mine...stating frequently, that you don't understand something and going on in other posts about your own intelligence
[e.g vs. Hart Inkletter's inability to run a board like this, years ago...just as an example...I just use that as a proof, that you do believe in your own skills and intelligence [by the way, I believe in your skills & intelligence too], which I in no way profoundly attack...to make it clear...however you seem to, rhetorically fitting...IMO... "hypocritically" (pls. insert a better/politer/better fitting word) praising my supposed intelligence]
then I can't help but being more and more direct...(hypocritically IMO:...now I am very sensitive to it...cause in the rest it's rather not a praise...rather the contrary...so it relativates then normally also the supposed praise/counterproductive, right?...capisce??...then I rather like the direct hard truth...only that you're not capable of explaining away your logical flaws in that "rebuttal" of the post of the pro-TFer...no matter how hard you try)
...here I try again, to spell it this time ....very much... out:
"Why is it that pro-Family posters like you typically have trouble with spelling, reading and comprehension--in effect answering something that wasn't even communicated? "
My comment: the poster could have been an ExSGA...then we're to blame for that (that would be an own goal...but you also didn't ask, whether he/she was an SGA or what...)...also in the other case...I knew quite a few FGAs with great academical skills before entering into TF...so what's your point???
"answering something that wasn't even communicated?"
I addressed that...many to most are guilty on the boards here for that at times....foremost me...so???again what's your point in cheaply singling him/her out here
"And why is it pro-TFI people like you typically rush in to declare your stance to counterbalance any threats (reporting to authorities in this case), by putting down other people's views and feelings and in effect issuing imperatives for which direction you want others to go, without properly explaining why they should or reasoning with them about anything?"
The world puts down feelings & views as well...I argued many times TFI and the world have lots in common...but you're free from that??...basically your "attack" is useless, because we're all in that boat at times...it just irks you, that someone has a mildly proTFI-nerve/stance for a change..
(The guys are meanwhile gone from the mall...it's not like the case we had ...TFI living in the neighborhood...totally different...since TFI moves @ a lot remember??)
"Why is it pro-TFI people typically think nothing of using abrasive and sexist phrases like "knickers in a twist?" "
"The answer is: a steady diet of TFI reading material and years living in a closed-system TFI environment unchallenged—a total lack of decent iron to sharpen your iron."
Worst logic/question/conclusion...why should someone think about it??..pro TFI or not...if others don't think about???...now please think about it yourself...Thank you!!!!
If I would be that poster, I wouldn't answer your questions...for they are not compelling...no direct implication...thus flawed/superflous...as I said earlier...only that you won't see or admit it.I have(!!!!!) to think about something which isn't obvious...huh????(For his/her lack of thinking about it..is a deficiency for you...right???)...and I tell you it's not...in the context of the board here and the world in general...therefore you were mistaken in the first place in targeting someone with rather cheap arguments...
I am not against targeting TFI...but please in a manner that is conclusive...much more compelling and there are many more ways, as I also used much of my time on journeys to point out that too..
I hope you can see the difference??
Peace to the boards and to your great work
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