In Reply to: Re: How much of a Catholic was Hitler?? posted by CB on October 09, 2007 at 08:52:46:
What Miguel said reminds me of what my best schoolfirend said, who became a protestant pastor & to whom I had adressed a letter from India saying something like:
Dear brother in Jesus....to which he replied quite "sharp", we wouldn't have the same Jesus...at that time I felt it was an oxymoron, as there happens to be only one Jesus
(Same/similar dilemma: is Allah..., God...Krsna ...Christ...the same or not etc.)...I was certain, that I had received Jesus on the shopping street in West-Berlin & not some counterfeit...simply at that time there was neither FFing, begging...deceiving abuse...etc. the subject or a problem (as I was not in yet)...a real one.I guess he didn't know that then, plus he's the one who took me to a revival-tent-evangelisation-event one day...where I had prior a similar prayer with them...I figure Jesus was the same, but I parted roads/ways with Him...that was my deviance.
Sure it was also a fault of Berg & Co, nevertheless I let the word be reinterpreted.When I left, I felt I needed to catch up on the baptism (the lutheran sprinkling= the catholic one can hardly be considered a baptism, moreover I can't see the scriptural evidence to start with babies), but not on getting to know Jesus, since I really was devoted to one Holy book from then onward...and for me in importance & in beauty of words it always ranked before Berg's writings...but sad to say I fell for that endtime prophet stuff & his importance to explain the true meaning of the Word.That's what the deviances are really a lot about: everybody claims to know the true meaning & if someone trumpets too much about it, I nowadays am on double alert.
I would quickly agree to the possibility that many of the very sweet catholic people happen to be born again, as they also love the Lord...as I definetely met some believers, who didn't want to leave the CC in order to witness to their fellow church people...as their calling.On the other hand there are many who just go through the "mores" & rituals & have no sound wordbased opinion & concept about salvation, although catholic theoligians nowadays readily admit, that salvation cannot be earned & happens to be a gift.
But there are theologians who point out, that in the first centuries after the death of the apostles slowly a drifting happened...the emphasis was often more on what man can & should do (first) & not what God has done through Christ for us...in a way it was back to works...Berg was not getting tired to harp on that one & I figure he was right on at least this one...therefore I can agree with you, that you find some sound opinion in Bergs teachings...the problem is, that all the other filth covers up all/or much of the good that otherwise would have made the group to something fairly fundamental...I think God wanted the wayward youth & others evangelised, but not at the prize of such deception.(Although I must say, that once you have gotten to know the Lord, the works/fruits should also prove it to some degree...meaning: the tree shouldn't be totally dry or foul)
Therefore for a good Christian is only one way with TF & that is out.I don't know though, how much one can stomach too much of the catholic stuff either.I appreciate plenty of them & lived as long among predominantly catholic people as among predominantly lutheraians...but you're not a Christian or saved, because you happen to be sweet or a devotee...the problem with TF was, although there was some fairly solid fundamental teaching (not enough for my liking: not enough about repentance, baptism & also the filling with the HG leaves IMO much to be desired...or renders you open for later confusion etc.)...there was much wrong/sinfilled with the day to day "Christianity" we used to have So in "similitude" to what Miguel said: I think we had the same Jesus in the beginning but not the same Christianity as the first century church...but we thought, we did better than them.. ugh..it just takes one glimpse in Paul's letters of all what you shouldn't do anymore once you got to know the Lord & His love, to see where TF went so terribly astray...& what we did was some appeasement: Berg is greater & more important than Paul (for lack of discernment in the David-prophecies)
CB in all respect, as much as I like catholic countries etc. if I hear that something like 1 billion of the world's population could/should be Christians (of all denominations)
then is that hardly in harmony with the broad way & the small way...& I meant really the small/narrow way, which leads to life...it simply can't be a majority thing or otherwise the word is not true & I can't believe that.Rather I believe, that many have a so called faith & Know simply little to nothing about salvation through grace.There are a bit like Nikodemus or Cornelius b e f o r e confessing faith in Christ.(Cornelius did good deeds in Israel) I'd rather have all men saved, but that is not really mine to muse upon.From celibacy - a middleage invention - to Maryology to hierarchical order of the clergy vs. the priesthood of all believers with some elders in some oversight position...it would be a longer list of what I don't like about Catholicism...my favourite in TF-times was pointing out the waste of money in building cathedrals etc...God dwelleth not in temples made with hands etc....but then I guess I find more wrong with TF nowadays.. maybe?!
I agree, they happen both to be quite deviant...on the other hand , is there at all a group in total accordance with the Word...I rather doubt it.