In Reply to: Re: just curious posted by Jo on April 14, 2008 at 12:02:07:
Jooo...I just came... huff... puff...back hooooome from the shop...with this block/ton of salt...let me have a seat first:
On a more serious note, I do not know, whether I get/got you here...cause I think/thought you asked a serious question??!!
When I watched Rosemaries baby, I think it was at one of those Saturday cinema nights in West- Berlin with my sister & soon to be brother in law & friends or so... I had then no idea, what the movie was really all about...I think I faintly remember, that Rosemary got the feeling of being used, but I might be wrong here...as it is more than 3 decades ago, but then it sort of serves as the screenplay of the one who is foretold in the Bible & so far I still think it will be a person, the antichrist...until I have further evidence...as you might know, the interpretations go from literal to the allegorical to whatnot.
It is my personal assumption for now, that according to Romans 8 and other relevant parts of the Bible, God does call & draw people and even gives them faith to believe...I can't help it to see all as a gift...(some people maintain, that you should still make a personal ---own---choice/decision...pretty deep stuff...let's leave that out...)....Now apparently some are also called for the "bad" job, for the evil stuff....Judas was chosen e.g....deliberately...even foretold in the Psalms e.g.....you might say: with an evil destination...(on the other hand he was also "needed"???...and I won't go into that stuff of what the gnostic "Gospel" of Judas is trying to portray...)....so if the antichrist happens to be a person...he is ordained evil from the beginning...(by the fall of Satan, one might add)
Jesus said of some Scribes & Pharisees that they'd have surely a father (not Abraham or God) , but the devil...pretty tough language...
(John 8:38onward)
Now how & where could I make then a connection at all with some parents, who happen to be atheists?????
A.Crowley, the known Satanists, had among his relatives (parents?...forgot) some who were of the movement of the brethren & I bet there are thousands to millions who had believing parents, but turned out unbelievers??!!Likewise many an atheistical couple's child turned out to become a believer.
For me, so far, it depends on what people got to know (gospelwise) in their lifetime...as a baby ..it seems to me...you normally cannot make a knowledgable decision for the faith, for getting baptised (John the Baptist is often taken as the example, that it's still possible, as he was leaping in the womb, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary) etc. and also from what I think so far, the baby didn't choose much of where to be a child with what parent, although I am getting here really much into the speculative, which I shouldn't...
Just to say: the child of atheists could turn out - to their dismay, I bet - as a believer, but the baby dieing of an unbelieving couple (two unbelievers) is unfortunately not "that holy", gathering my opinion from: 1.Cor. 7:14 "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; else were your children unclean; but now are they holy" (Interesting are also King David's thoughts when his child/baby of Bathsheba died , 2.Samuel 12:23)
Noteable is also that Jesus talks in Matthew 18 about little ones which believe in Him...in verse 2 He called a child, as an example.The child was old enough to understand and to listen and to heed the call.
But since there were no evil/bad deeds of the baby-- born to two unbelievers-- done, that should be then in its favour at judgement day...or not??(In case it died)
(John 5:29...emphasis is here regarding: doing...deeds...what did a baby do wrong?)
I mean...nowhere did I intend to draw/make a connection from unblieving atheistic parents to a "Rosemary's Baby"....that is pretty unique, if you ask me....as much as the virgin birth of Jesus was unique...I see there some black & white parallel, if per chance in the meantime I am not in delusion/error about that one.(like many Rosemary's babies???)
(Sometimes I "envied" the disciples of "Emmaus", cause they had quite some long private time, to get much explained directly and privately by Jesus & here we/I go stumbling around, before during & after TF...not again a pitfall)