In Reply to: Re: coming into faith posted by phoenix on August 29, 2008 at 07:27:37:
I think it's the most beautiful question I encountered here on this bord, since for me this is really what it amounts to: the real love of Jesus
This verses I always treasured very much also while in TF: As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith....beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of
men...Colossians 2:6-8
That was the most beautiful part, knowing, that He did enter my heart, showing me love I always wanted to get to know...but that purity, sad to say, didn't last, because TF had a "differing" training-program...it's like teaching kids in kindergarten or in school some wrong concepts (it's like training kids for theft or in a children's army in Africa)...the child trusts the elders...but it's like in engeneering, if you're taught the wrong principles, the building, the bridge can collapse.
Since things collapsed in our & other people's life close in or out of TF, one has to start afresh from the foundation, to compare, where things went wrong...
Don's short answer is really the key: it's the Word, the Bible.
I'd say, born again-people just have a craving for the Word, what does He want to tell me.
I must say, that one of the first obstacles in my life after leaving was my deep remorse, to have done so much wrong in my "discipleship".
I realised, that I had broken into other people's
marriages, which is adultery & totally contrary to the Word.
We/I took all that one wife-lie as some form of highest altruism...all those isms...you see.
If you can...strengthwise...timewise...I would like to hear, what personally has been your panic & terror in TF, but only if you feel comfortable about it.The reason why I say that is, because I didn't have to suffer "terror" .... panic, well that depends...having not the right lit-income, was leading to some "mild"-panic or being on the sharing schedule, without wanting to be, yes, that lead to panic.
I guess, that is also something the SGAs experienced a lot more...of course, the "black" adult sheep also were scrutinised, but I managed to coast along.
What I did then in the last 16 years after TF is constantly comparing the Word with either TF's terachings or that of other congregations & thanks
to (meanwhile) google, internet & other resources,
it's possible to finetune the interpretation of the Word.It's like an approximation-curve...the more "calculated" points you have, the surer is
the graph....e.g. if Berg(ism) taught one wife, you compare that with the epistles, Paul's writings (even the gospel itself) and you find, that you have to throw that teaching out of your basket.The same goes for the tithe (not working, labouring), living deceitful ("white" lies) & a host of other immoralities, regarding children especially etc....the question then arises, does God forgive all these wrongdoings (of the adults, I am talking of)?It helped me to read the biblical accounts about David, denial of Peter, the letters to the Corinthians, the epistle of John, Romans 7 and the epistles to the churches in the first 3 chapters of Revelation.
I came to the conclusion, that the church/believers can greatly err, getting into deplorable sin...but that there is space/time for repentance/metanoia...rethinking...going then the right way.
So I say for the adults (of TF/FGAs) there is a huge need to repent after TF, to really hate that past life, without though throwing "the baby out with the bathwater"...I do believe, that I met believers in Christ in TF, however, after I left, I just felt the need to get baptised, as I was just sprinkled as a baby, something which hardly amounts to a baptism, as written in the Bible...I wanted to start with the basic things, which are required & start anew...also for my then very young children's sake I needed some congregation to fellowship, cause besides the school experience, I wanted them to have christian friendships.
To find out who is who in the "church-world/landscape" is not so easy, it takes quite a lot of time, to evaluate that.Where I am now since 8
years I am not 100% content with, but I figure meanwhile, that that is almost impossible to achieve anyway, cause foremost I and others all have their shortcomings & I know of brethren - nonExers- who withdrew themselves so much, that they don't shade another doorpost of a church, cause they only/foremost see the faults.
As far as fear/terror is concerned, I cannot really speak so much of own experience...I know of the terror in the world, I heard of the terror
in TF & like I said, I know of some panic...in a way I was my own worst enemy...I became bad, by being disobedient to the Bible, which in TF I read for the first time in my life...with Berg's
interpretation-deception.
If you encountered much terror/fear (which I also had...fear of man...healthy is a fear/respect of God) in TF, then I guess you have to make a Word-study: love/faith vs. fear.It pays to know, on which side you are.If you're a child of God, there is no need for fear, cause God has nothing to fear & loves to strengthen those of His who are needlessly in fear of those who are yet allowed in power.
It's a matter of knowing your state/worth in & through Christ.You have (re)birth rights, nobody
no power can touch, yet you have to cling to it with Godgiven faith...it's an exercise, as much as physical exercise is also healthy...also prayerlife is benefitting most of all us, although I believe, He loves our sincere prayers as well.
There was a time, I was much wroth with God (? the father or whatever else was then in charge over "fateful" situations I deplored), but really not with Christ, as He was the one who was always dear to me & close in desperation & prayer...but there were times, where I wished God would have done "things better in my life" & couldn't He have done so, being Almighty...I thought "fate"/destination/predestination was a bit too tough for liking...but all that grumbling/hating/and murmuring just made me more miserable.I realised, that God gave that which is/was dearest to Him...children also are dearest to me, my kids & to see them suffer is just hardly bearable, that's why as a parent you want to do anything imaginable to save your kids from harm (the main reason, why I left TF)
Just to say: God has immensely provided for the salvation of us/the world and that thankfulness had to be developed in my heart & life.This was another turn in my life..
I think if we follow too soon some isms: like Calvinism, Dispensationalism, Catholicism, Lutherism, Wesleyism, Pentecostalism etc. etc. we might land in a very bad fix....the traditions of men (also of "some faith")...as it said in Colossians.Nowadays I shun people/Christians, who
appear too dead sure about something, too bold, too challenging, too bigoted, too authoritative, too manipulatative in arguments (because meanwhile I learned a few things...people choose some verses & leave out others in balance)...
so the beware warning (Colossians) is quite important...the same goes for wrong voices in the head/mind
A big problem in TF was also to lay oneself terrible open for "new revelations"...a dream, a voice, sign...blah, blah could have such big meaning...so that Berg shared the weirdest most insignificant dreams & visions with his duped/stupid followers.
I am cured from that, thank God.Meanwhile I am also again very thankful for Israel (misguided people you find in any nation)...also thanks to Romans chapter 11...and most of all I am thankful for the revelations (Bible) I really need thanks to the people of Israel...for salvation cometh through the Jews.
That means I shunned wild fire, which I really don't need & don't care about...what I really care about is love of the 1.Cor 13 type.
It pays though to either learn Greek & or to have some interlinear Bible.Even the KJ version of the Bible has it's limitations.It's e.g. very healing to know, that the Greek had at least 3 words for the English word love and whereas TF stressed all the time all the more the eros type of love, you hardly find eros in the Bible, in the NT not at all and only very few times in the OT..not even in the song of solomon, as I learned to my surprise.
I'd say, to sum it all up, be a good student of the Word...your university is there where you read
it quietly, intimately:
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free...whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin (the world, the many isms...TF...the devil)...If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:31onwards
One thing is may be important here too: I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be presented blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.1.Thess. 5:23
Evangelical teaching is therefore to have preserved, spirit, soul & body...these three unto
the coming...
Paul further says that in fornication we hurt our own bodies 1.Cor.6:18...therefore he says:flee fornication...therefore it was good/necessary, to flee from TF.It's not enough to not smoke...not eating white sugar etc...I guess it's evident what I mean.
The way I understand it is, that the soul is the more emotional part of us and that's where we can get quite deceived, besides the mind (I wonder, whether sheer logic is more a matter of matter, the body?!).Some Christians like to work along that way in christian therapy, christian psychology (psychae...soul), but I am not really very convinced about that service.
I wish you the very best in Christ & shall pray for that.