In Reply to: Re: Just a quick response posted by CB on January 10, 2009 at 21:36:18:
....for one thing many historicists have less difficulty to accept the historicity of Jesus than many an atheistic theologian.For there are many other historic "facts" & figures who could also likewise easily be disputed & put off as fairytales, since the database of former events is often much much weaker than of what we are used of today (& people erraneously are expecting the same sound dates on secondlevel for other aeons/times in history, often/mostly just subconsciously), nevertheless even nowadays people fall pray to fakes, so I wonder, why people want a 100% surety of historic...New Testament accounts, when that isn't even possible for all the events in modern times... however I do believe, the Bible can stand the scrutiny of people's research
CB...people even at the onset of Christianity had great difficulty, to accept the different dogmas spelled out or between the New Testament lines.
I occupied myself much after leaving TF 17 years ago with early church history, because I wanted to know, where things went haywire with the church...also with me...with TF...it's not enough to only consider the different gnostic sects...even the gradual shift in importance of the bishopric to Rome vs the older "seat" of Jerusalem etc....the letter of Clemens e.g...all the different synods...the reforms under Constantine...you had all kinds of heresies & it'd be quite a job, to find out, what I consider heretic now & even then...but I/we just concentrate on for now what is may be best paraphrased as Christology...
Matthew 22:
41: While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42: Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43: He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44: The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45: If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46: And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
People (Pharisees, who should have known their OT, but actually didn't) weren't able to understand/answer this...contrary to the OT and they were not able to answer that properly in the early centuries, as there is a word/category or several for them:
...and people are not able to answer that properly today, just consider how theologians view e.g. the letter to the Colossians (read/consider the "Christology" of the letter in it's first chapter)...as apocryphic, not originally by Paul...very "strange"...so am I surprised...??No...but a bit sad though
Do you think, Jews could answer/interpret properly the following excerpt from the book of Daniel?...neither could the Muslims do that justice:
Daniel 7
13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14: And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I have the feeling, that Islam got on the roll among "backslidden"...heretical Jews & Christians, with some dose of paganism
Why would a learned Rabbi respond though positively to the predictions in the OT, wondering whether the Messiah had already come & Rabbi Cohn did find Jesus as the saviour...messiah, thank God.
Testimony of Rabbi Leopold Cohn D.D.
Challenging the Rabbis
Here are many relating prophecies and fulfillments listed...to discount them all should be very dificult...I mean impossible...I have an in India bought KJV with the cyclopedic concordance...very neat...under Christ are the same or similar listings then under the following link...
Here's a converted Muslim, who makes a desperate attempt, to discount some predictions relying on the "work" of infidel.org:
You can search/browse those prophecies in the internet yourself, mainly the one Daniel 9: 25, 26...I inserted it just about a year ago, to finetune my knowledge & got scores of results...you can do that at your leisure...the following of infidels is even not totally void of the same stunning truth, that the prophecy coincides with the appearing of Jesus...sorry, unbelievers, who else appeared around that time?Anyone else of significance???Rabbi Cohn answered that for himself, so anyone else can come to the same conclusion, the internet gives tremendous help in the verification process...but I won't spoonfeed here completely, the results are some fingertips away via google, plus there are scores of hits & I wouldn't know of the bat, which is my favourite page....:
Here's some further insight regarding the salvation program already cryptic in the names/meanings of the first Biblical persons:
Taken from
From the Author
DECODING THE MESSIANIC MYSTERY OF THE FIRST TEN NAMES IN HEBREW HISTORY
We believe that Chuck Missler, a brilliant Bible expositor, discovered just such a code regarding Jesus' lineage and purpose for coming as a suffering Messiah. We would like to point out that the very meanings of the Jewish names of our original ancestors reveal God's plan to send His suffering Messiah who would die for us.
Missler points out that: "In Hebrew: Adam means 'man'; Seth means 'appointed'; Enosh means 'mortal'; Kenan means 'sorrow'; Mahalalel means 'the blessed God'; Jared means 'shall come down'; Enoch means 'teaching'; Methuselah means 'his death shall bring'; Lamech means 'the despairing'; and Noah means 'rest' or 'comfort.'"
Reading this genealogy of names as a sentence, translating them from Hebrew to English, we get: "Man is appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down, teaching that His death shall bring the despairing comfort." This, indirectly but clearly, shows that the God Incarnate Messiah would give His life for us, as Jesus did.
This goes harmoneously along with the following part from 1.Peter 1:
18: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19: But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,