In Reply to: Re: What I can say based on what I've seen posted by Traveler in India on January 01, 2010 at 19:05:24:
From the TOI-article:
India was just below Iraq and well above countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan when it came to social hostility in the country. Pakistan is at the third place right below India.
Even though the report says that "the highest overall levels of restrictions are found in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, where both the government and society at large impose numerous limits on religious beliefs and practices'' India is ranked well above them in the social hostility index.
While India has fared badly on both, China has done remarkably well when it comes to social hostility even though it has done badly in the government imposed restrictions section.
As far as rigging is concerned...just note the sources they drew on..also the time-frame and the fact, that there was no other study so far available...to me that is better than pure feelings and guesswork of people...just favouring their special nation they eye
"But until now, there has been no quantitative study that reviews an extensive number of sources to measure how governments and private actors infringe on religious beliefs and practices around the world."
Please keep in mind the following are all government-restrictions!!!! :
GRI Q5-9 page 6 onward
Q7 is pretty bad...not very tolerant is it???Same for Q8....what about Q11???...and Q13
Q19 happens to be 0.5 for India...China 0.7...and for the US (pretty populous)...0.0
India does well in displaying (something personal /outward) religious symbols Q10
I hope you did go through the social hostility Index-questions (I am not listing it all here) and there India fares pretty bad like Saudi Arabia and also at times like Israel and if you're "stuck" on the population-issue, then all you got to do is see whether fairly populous nation...take China e.g....fare always worse than India...then you would have made it...instead you have often a 0.00 with China..or often a figure less than India...
so that confirms, what TOI had as a summary
You wrote now:
And I am addressing the original India Times statement you posted that India is worse than Saudi Arabia or Iran. It simply isn't.
I guess you noticed...that there was a government-component and than the society-component...India fares very bad in the social component...and you can't just justify that with big population-figures after the manner well, shit happens among a lot of people...just compare that with China please!!!
You further said:
Freedom to proselytize" is not even something I'd ask for in any country, opposition to it or not. Resistance and reactions to the beahvior of certain "proselytizers" are perfectly understandable in India, and Pew Forum admits to not factoring in whether or not they are "justifiable," but just that they have happened. Why would anyone want to be so arrogant as to convert each other in India anyway? It's already a country where ideas of spirituality abound, religions are already running in full force in lives of almost anyone you meet, so why try to fill a vacuum where there isn't one and create social unrest?
Really?You never changed your mind?Chose a different brand of car...another handy-supplier?? etc...why shouldn't it be different, when considering one's religion...born into it...remaining therein????
Please read, what Ambedkar had to say about it:
"As for this link that you posted in support your argumen, just read about some of the "conversions" and reasons for the repercussive incidents."
Sure...it's always the fault of the religious minority and the agressors...very often Hindus...are always the victims...is it???
"And wasn't it you yourself who posted reports of trickery used by Indian proselytizers?"
Yes, I did, because I am convinced, that the right methods would bear good fruits...the Christian way...but the wrong methods would just be an offence to the general cause...Christian cause.
It's only got borders with troubled Muslim states, for Pete's sake. The vast majority of India is peaceful and tolerant. I thought you'd know better.
ehem...those Muslim countries were formerly part of the British Raj...India...and just see what happened during separation as far as killings and murderings are concerned...that had more to do with the other's religion than with his ethnical origin or not?....that enemity
is really not cured in the Indian subcontinent...I really know, that a lot of Indians in the metropolitan areas...especially the highly educated...hats off to India about all that progress...couldn't care less about all the petty quarrels...religious ones...but they also have not the full say and do in India...and I am risking here a prejudice/opinion towards you...I think you went largely by those people and I
know, it's very "comfortable/nice" to be around them...that I do know!!!
You said:
"India is the most pluralistic and tolerant place on earth"
No it isn't according to the report it's either Japan or Brazil or whatever island...hats off to them
(Brazil being pretty pluralistic too...ethnically speaking)