In Reply to: Re: atheism posted by Farmer on February 01, 2010 at 13:24:44:
Farmer:
I certainly agree, and know by repeated experience, the 40-years-in-the-desert kind, that trial by fire of circumstantial challenges, and questions "of the reason of the hope that is in [us]", and the hardship of dealing with a family post-cult can be extremely difficult, and painful to the depth of the soul.
As i look back to try to determ9ne what made me the "unstable soul" the false teachers able to allure me into the cult by reading me Mo Letters in addition to their perverted proof-texts from Scripture, I recall that I tried ecvery drug I could get my hands on, at least once--this excluded heroin, thank God. My week at the "Trip Tent" at a week-long Rock Festival I already wrote about took away my curiosity about drugs.
I was Bipolar Type I at the time, and did not know it. I did have some drug-induced hallucinatory experiences; maybe 3 0r 4; not much very heavy--small doses of psillicybin and mescaline, a small dose of pure LSD, and some STP (heavier and stronger--but a shorter trip--than LSD. I did smoke my share of pot over the years--some on high school, some in college, and then some post-TF--a oouple of years only. I think I was kind of "self-medicating" with it--I don't like that term--it souinds like a weak excuse to do drugs, so as not to deal like a man with actual reality.
Now, I think there is a reason it's called "dope"--it makes you stupid and useless, and your problems remains for you to rediscover when it eventually wears off. It helps you not at all.
And it is easy to show that atheism is an easy, yet intellectually pretentious, way to avoid reality. I did that pre-TF, and pre-University, as an act against my Dad's rationalist-materialist atheism and evolution beliefs, and ended up nihilistic philosophically for a short while.
He had rejected the "freaked out neo-pentecostalism" of his parents as their "rural and ignorant" beliefs; that was HIS rebellion. But we were raised under nearly as self-righteous a morality as any religion--his raising was Pentecostal Holiness and early Assembly of God, and he hated both--can't say I blamed him. But he had no reasonable excuse, for me, for his rigid morality (which I later found to be hypocritical--he went to whores with my uncle), or his apparent perfectonistic rejection of me as his son (based on his OWN self-loathing). The French say, "To understand is to forgive". Amen to that. I have, and love my dad.
But while I was griowing up, my Dad rejected a "straw man" argument against REAL Christianity, as all atheists eventually must.
When pressed, most atheists are not really all that "hard-core"; that is, unless they've published within Academia and its pseudo-intellectual environs, and/or they just want some undue attention, fame, or notoriety--I have observed a grab-bag of various similar apparent motivations--very few atheists/agnostics even know HOW to engage in a real discussion disallowing ad hominem and ad bacculum errors in logic.
One suggestion is to read a bit more widely. For instance, from (and others)
are the following topics:
1. History of Ontological Arguments
2. Taxonomy of Ontological Arguments
3. Characterisation of Ontological Arguments
4. Objections to Ontological Arguments
5. Parodies of Ontological Arguments
6. Gödel's Ontological Argument
7. Plantinga's Ontological Argument
8. St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
Plantinga
Barnes
Adams
Lewis
Oppenheimer and Zalta
Critical Appraisal
9. Ontological Arguments in the 21st Century
One of my sisters was also Type I from Prep School on, took a LOT of acid after high school, injected PCP subcutaneously, and experimented with opiates. She's recovered, now--pray for her, though--12 Step is her religion, and not a relationship with Jesus.
I will look for Jane E. Gilbert's bio--sounds interesting. I would also be interested in the path you took where you wotet about "that...which made me setting out to search alone for the answers. "
I agree with your paragraph:
"Anyway...to me atheism has for one to do with ignorance, lack of intelligence (contrary to what websites and proponents of atheism would want us to think and believe)...lack of tact...for if you enjoy any party on earth you're invited to, you attend, you at least express some thanks for the goods lavished on you...and if the host is not present/available, you notice at least from others, who it was, who arranged it...only the self-centered indulge into the feasting, without thanking anyone...just going there for the free ride."
I see that many of its proponents unintelligently propagandize its allegations and hypotheses. I agree that ALL those discussing the matter must be Gentlemen/Ladies.
And, the Lord knows them that are His.
OT2