To prevent, that the other thread gets too long, overloaded...I allow myself this "intervention"...to get the important subject kind of out of the "posting-cellar" and repost your answer adding my comments:
Farmer:
I've spent the better part of a day reviewing all the divorce & remarriage verses I know of, with commentaries, etc.
I agree with your point of view, for the most part, if I am indeed interpreting it properly. I am NOT for "putting away" for just ANY reason, but I AM for divorce for those involved in the uninterrupted process that INEVITABLY begins with any of several types of abandoning the spouse, and then leads to estrangement and sexual sin against the spouse, AND consequently divorce, all in one fell swoop, if you will. A person, or persons involved in that process can interrupt it and repent, at any time; it is hoped.
I believe THAT IS what Christ meant to convey--otherwise His answers to those who asked would have been much more cut-and-dried, and totally unambiguous. He DOES hate "putting away", and the pain it can cause.
Dear OT2...I am so happy to see that we're actually talking about the very same things, thinking alike...this is not taken for granted in the very wide scale of counsel nowadays offered to failing spouses of a failed marriage.I know of one instance, where a German pastor--writing actually a pamphlet/booklet about it--argued, that although all that divorcing/ remarriage is a sin...nevertheless Jesus takes away our sins...so anyone marrying anew, while the mate of the first marriage is still alive, starts the ceremony or preparation-for marriage- talk with a prayer of forgiveness of sins...you see, there are many "ways" to get a grip on it, but IMO just very few people/websites counsel the right way, the undiluted truth (hard facts) of the Word.
That's also the reason, why I posted the sooo touching story of Marie Rubens...when I first read that, I cried...that woman was from then onward a saint to me....and I guess her husband must have realised what a jewel she was...
Maleachi 2:14-16 is such a needed one...to understand the intents of the Lord...on the other hand verses 11,12 deals with the customs of Judah (Israel)...covered also in Ezra 9 and 10...Solomon also being a bad example in being led astray through the wives of strange countries, of strange gods.And Ezra 10 is the result of the "dealings with that problem", which sounds like Maleachi 2:12 ...the Lord..
was in all that....however for NT-times, for us out of the nations, we have Paul's counsel to stick to the unbeliever...no matter what country he/she comes from (1.Cor.7)
1.Cor.7:5 allows also for a time of prayer and fasting alone...a separation...for "healthy" intentions...that means, there can be "separate" ways for a limited time anyway...bottom line: come together again.
Therefore and for any supposed reasons in Mt. 5 and 19 I was/am for the possibility of separation (in light of 1.Cor.7:11) and last straw divorce if someone is really "blinded" or too hurt/endangered...and then that leaves still the possibility to come back together....divorce is the worst stage of the possible separations IMO...as long as people remain single...once the line is crossed though in remarriage...the pic becomes awfully complicated....for everyone involved, including children.That is also one of the main reasons, I refrained from it...emotional reasons...to spare others the hardships...mainly the growing children, who get confused in all that....plus all the relocations.It has become very popular since a longer time for German TV to cover that subject of the related problems of patchwork-families...often in a very humorous way...and sometimes with profound sadness, because feelings do get hurt.
How DOES one counsel an all-at-once, or even a serial, bigamist, otherwise? TF's FULL of them!!!
It's a tough question, and not so uncommon for people leaving the cult. It really IS heartbreaking, and a viciously entangled web of confusion; very painful for adults AND kids involved; especially those involved in incest in any way.
Yes...it's a huge mess TF got people into by wrong advice, counsel etc.The way I understand the Swiss authors of one of the Bible-boards I frequent very regularly...they are brethren/Darby influenced...they believe in OSAS...provided someone really repented...got baptized and spirit-filled etc...and if they sense any outsider is maybe saved too but entangled in a second marriage...first off, they couldn't minister the word in any of their gatherings...second they think, if I got that right (but it's kind of my position) they remain in the state of adultery...and then it doesn't serve any, if you once before prayed a prayer to the Lord to forgive you...if we pray anything according to His will, He listens it says...I don't think that prayer is according to His will...anyway, if they remain in that adultery, then it poses some problems for their lives, I am convinced...like Hebrews 13:4...it might be like sin unto death...some punishment during lifetime for sure.Some people are so surprised, that some "sweet" people get some "heavy distribution" sometimes...but I believe there is nothing by chance and whom the Lord loves He chastises...plus Romans 8:28...It's a matter of His perfection/Holiness/righteousness and that the law is for the lawbreakers and Christians shouldn't manifest themselves as such...becoming therewith an approach to the name of Christ.
So in His mercies...I could think, that He somehow breaks up that "false" marriage, through sickness...repentance...some way....sooner or later.. my reasoning...I mean 1.Cor 6:9 really shook me up some years back...adulterers...fornicators don't inherit the kingdom of God...plain as day.That's where people need to face the question, whether they love the Lord more or their desire for a relationship...man should not
be alone Gen. 2:18..yes, but not a twosome at any costs...like hearkening too much unto the voice of the woman (when it's obviously wrong at times Gen. 3:17)...I know of Christians who married unbelievers and suffered....I believe Paul's counsel in 1. Cor.7 is for the situation, where a couple of unbelievers has a change, that is, that one comes to Christ first...one should be married in the Lord otherwise (1.Cor.7:39)...for otherwise what communion has light with darkness...in other words...people got themselves into trouble...and I deeply regret that too.I always cringe, when I hear of marriage-problems...separation and divorce....I almost feel like "slapping" people back together...not literally of course.Marriage is such beautiful symbol of the relationship of Christ with the church...people who don't get that pic of His utter loyalty to the bride...really miss a very big point.
I say you DO go with the very first "wife"; either by common law, TF "mating", by justice of the peace (both my marriages), chapel wedding with all the trimmings, etc, or whatever.
That's also the position of Mcfall, I suppose, in the pdf I linked here...difficult road to reach that...when people build their new "cozy" relationships.On that Bible board I mentioned, for some strange reason, they didn't advocate any break up...one day I will ask them why not...their argument was so far, that it causes new problems, which I am of course aware of.I think, as long as things go well, many don't "feel" like changing....my assumption is that similar to Rev. 3:22 first some calamities have to happen before some see the light and the errors of their ways...
All others you SHOULD help, and all one's children SHOULD be financially supported, like it or not. Fathers AND mothers should be responsible.
That's also my practice and position
But sex , after reconciliation, and remarriage to the first wife/husband, should be exclusive to her/him, and the relationship with all others should change completely, and immediately, to please God. Otherwise God is NOT pleased, according to His Word.
Yes...sex without the God-approved marriage is simply fornication &/or adultery...latter presumably more if one was/is married
That's my take, so far.
For MYself--I'm still very pained from my divorces, my estrangement from my son, and so on. It erally does hurt. My big "spree" was a mixture of sheer sexual conquest, and then a lot of pain and loneliness, and then brokenness and then repentance; finally, thank God! All of those were while sstill married to my first wife, but bitterly hating her parents, who truly did try to destroy both me and our marriage.
I am sorry for you and I can feel for you..."strange" enough...it was also the parents of my Indian mate who apparently couldn't stand me...as much as I know, but in many ways I don't blame them and for all my wrongdoings in counseling her in TF, I feel I deserved that seperation.
But that's where I know/feel...Jesus really worked...when the burden gets too heavy...the pain too big, then you just have Jesus left...no one else..."nobody knows the trouble I've seen...nobody knows but Jesus"...great words of a very fine song/tune.Cast they burdens upon the Lord...that's my proof, that He exists...for me...it becomes lighter after prayer to HIM and so many times, that it can't be coincidence/probability...it's my 100% personal proof...no matter what any unbeliever tries to tell me....that's how friendship develops...or "intimacy"...although that is TF-distorted by now...that's how I know He loves and cares...I don't like the troubles He allows me to encounter, but I sure love the comforting.
The one lady at church I was ionterested in for a while was a missionary to Belize; living on insurance money from her dead husband, who had been a philanderer who subsequently divorced her, claining to have found a "soul mate" in a hyper-pentecostal church. That made her exceptionally weary/leery of me, I found. Also, a couple of false friends/gossips, told her I was Bipolar, and made me souind like a crazed stalker, or something--too bad. I really just wanted a friend--I don't have many.
That reminds me of something William Lerrick told us in a week-long seminary, the one who baptized me in the year 2000, he also mentioned a couple who found each other in such seminary..."got it from the Lord" to get together and later into big trouble...how can you get something of the Lord, which is against His written Word??...not only TF can be pretty crazy...but I am not pointing a finger at anyone...being not better in any way.
Same kind of for me, concerning friendships...also it takes time for friendships and Germans have either deep friendships and rather few to no superficial ones and I can't stand superficiality and deep friendships come not so easily without investing big time here.
Let's just pray we'll both just "go with the flow" of God's sovereign will and leading of our free wills! :-)
A big Amen to that...my pleasure...you wrote.
GBY, too, brother!
OT2