In Reply to: Re: I really appreciate you too posted by Farmer on February 14, 2010 at 03:23:55:
Farmer:
One of the original pastors of the church where I met a former ¡§TF Inspirationalist¡¨ exer, (whose mother had written a book called ¡§Snare of the Fowler¡¨), about his escape from TF, who led worship there.
That church, which I was attracted to because of him, and because OF the worship, was called ¡§Church in the City¡¨, and it was ASKED to join the Vineyard movement (the only one EVER--all others came from the movement naturally, or THEY asked to join).
That pastor now heads up the entire Vineyard in the US, and his son just took over the pastorate of his former congregation. The father, who heads up Vineyard USA, has taught, at his Sugarland church, that no matter WHAT your income, you HAVE to tithe 10% of your GROSS income to be considered a full-time member¡Xthat¡¦s one bone I have to pick with him¡XI don¡¦t see it that way; for more than one reason (like I¡¦m just barely surviving on TWO jobs, and will soon have to take a THIRD, just to pay all of my bills!).
Jesus Christ does NOT expect me to literally put myself out on the streets! The church he¡¦s leaving for the national ¡§pastorate¡¨ is in a very well-to-do area of Houston, the rich part of a township called Sugarland.
It offends me that membership would be restricted not only from ME, there (and I have been around for 35+ years; as long or longer than most of the pastors and elders!), but from those under a survival-level of poverty.
Sorry¡Xthe Lord said to preach the Gospel to the poor, and any ministry that does not account for that cannot be obedient to Him, nor sufficiently humble.
At the particular Vineyard I attend (central, in the Heights¡Xthere are more neo-yuppies, yes, and some very spiritually immature and even arrogant¡Xbut there are a lot of poor as well, and the illegal immigrant contention is growing rapidly!), NOT that one in Sugarland, tithing¡¦s not an issue.
And, the pastor I get along with best has a wife who WAS previously married to an unbeliever, a FORMER unsaved adulterer (she got saved while married to him, and he did NOT), who got saved, came back and repented for all of his marital sins, and now stays with them whenever he comes to town, when he sees his daughter, who lives with my pastor friend and his wife.
It¡¦s my pastor friend¡¦s 1st marriage, and he does minister, and occasionally preaches (see his last 2 recent sermons at his name is David Gausepohl¡Xyess, it DOES sound just like Gospelƒº). His wife is not a pastor, as he is. She is VERY Spirit-filled, and very loving (by profession a nurse), and does minister ¡§unofficially¡¨ to others there for a very long time, now, as I have¡Xthirty-something years. Other than that, I just have not seen the subject come up.
I did talk to the pastor about MY teaching a class on divorce and remarriage; though. THAT would bring a lot of opinions ¡§out of the woodwork¡¨; of THAT I am sure!!! I don¡¦t think a lot of people would like ¡§my¡¨ doctrine; either!!! We really haven¡¦t pursued that; yet. I¡¦m not sure yet where those with Type I Bipolar Disorder fit; whether we are even ALLOWED to teach! Hmmm. Like you said:
¡§All in all...what to say...what to expect...really "sad times"...nevertheless I won't budge...I won't just bleat with the sheep (not howl with the wolves...hopefully) just for companies sake...on the other hand I also don't believe in monk/monastic-like seclusion...one should be willing to mingle...like the salt¡¨.
Sad, but true!
My ¡§experiences¡¨ were actually Satanic set-ups; completely so! Satan wants our destruction; at any cost! While I was backslidden, and committed to it, he brought along my wildest fantasies; also very sad to say¡XI thank God for His forgiveness. It great to know we CAN participate in the nature of God mentioned in 2 Pe 1, based on the fact that we deserve NONE of it!
We just had Ash Wednesday¡Xit was great! Deep repentance and cleansing, and re-dedication to God, and preparation for Easter, coming up!
Appreciate your having said:
¡§I have the "feeling" we both "wisened up" about a super important issue...marriage and it's deep bondage and significance...it's value and spiritual meaning...therefore we don't take it lightly...I feel a major huge rock/obstacle is off the road or blocking/hindering my view and way since five years and that gives also tremendous peace in that regard...but I do confess, that otherwise I have/had other construction-sites, which needed clarifications...quite a life...you might have heard some sighing here...yeah, I am not that much of a nice/gentle sufferer...sad to say...sometimes I did my yelling and protesting...nothing I am proud of...just my nature/rebellion. ¡§
I feel the same way!
God bless you and your as well!
OT2