In Reply to: Re: dark side of calvinism posted by OT2 on April 21, 2010 at 14:56:50:
It's already quite late and I had lots of work as a result of the handymans day to day progress...oradained/approved by the housing cooperation.
I apologize...if the answer for now happens to be very insufficient...
If Calvin..even Luther or Augustin is anything about, then little to no freedom in the "effectual" call through the gospel/preaching or some other witness...either you are ordained and listen or you aren't...what my "beef" is for now all about or for the moment more is this "freedom thing"...God didn't intervene, when Eve got tempted...lied at...by the devil...he lied from the very beginning...Eve only knew before "voices" saying the truth....this dualism...light /darkness...truth/lie ...good/evil etc...is henceforth running very "practically"/naturally through people lives, the world over.God didn't hinder it then and people are disappointed, that He seldom seems to intervene...at least not to people's liking...He did though on enough occassions for chosen Israel...plus for chosen men of God before and still later...
I came to the conclusion, that this "liberty/freedom-stuff"...pardon me...is a consequence of the one very strong side of God...love...though HE is also more righteous than anyone else...Adam and Eve didn't die that particular day...they died being almost
a thousand years...a good reason why to conclude that with God a day is like a thousand years for us...I got that told decades back from a someone specialising in Hebrew and it made sense to me...it never had dawned on me except for the other mentioning in the Bible...is that also partly due to HIS grace???...anyway to satisfy HIS divine law they had to die...though not immediately...even Cain got a bit of a "gentle" treatment...
Love endureth all things...if you think of it...I believe the Word, that God cannot be tempted
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
I am often in private furious...because I know some force is sometimes really hindering me...and that must be the devil...and now come a set card verse:
1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
1.Cor. alone without James leaves it open...who tempted...it must be the devil...
Anyway...in Calvinism you finally wind up blaming God for everything, which is really devilish...
There is also a book...I haven't read...of Dave Hunt...what love is this..or what manner of love is this...I think he co-leads Berean Call...some of their monthly letters I read on a Swiss website I visit regularly...they "escaped" the exclusive brethren and started something "of their own"...wrong expression...I know...
The way you articulate things...I get the impression, you're leaning towards Arminianism...although they opposed then in the Netherlands the Calvinists, it's safe to say, that you don't have to be a Calvinist to believe in the OSAS-message...the Darby-brethren
belong to it...Baptists as well...(However, in America you also have the reformed Baptist Churches...; ) )
Here's some Puritan's opposition to "Arminianism" and George Bryson didn't do too well IMO in his debate with Dr. Jack White...
John 6:44 is a very strong verse...but it has to be addressed in a different way then he did IMO...I just posted the link, because it appeared on the Swiss website and I thought it might be water on my mills...frankly I didn't like the style too much...as he quotes the opponents almost never ending...but I want to see his take on Bible-verses ...not what all the Calvinists have got to say...even the problems they admit to...
Oh...UC-theology wasn't really discussed here on the board much...I exchanged some views with a dear friend of mine fluent in Hebrew...so the aeon-dispute or olam is quite "heavy"...but as I argued here before on the board...I believe HE seperates the wheat from the tares...light from darkness and lovers of darkness...beyond that I don't know...
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal....that verse is kind of the key verse for the opposition of UC...but I don't think we really understand what everlasting punishment could really be about?? or do we??
I only know that God is righteous and good and beyond that I won't speculate much or rather nothing.
However the brother I know, who handed me his printed study (is quite a volume) about the refutation of the UR-theory about ten years back...also is living in "confusion" by having married again, while his mate is still alive...one "get-together" he also chattered
in "tongues"...though no interpretation was given...it kind of shows to me...you can have a certain degree of understanding...but then
there can be yet still some "understanding darkened"...who is that and always yielded...so that he never misses the point...
I came across some testimony I watched recently...it started nice...but then "her preaching" started to cause me to doubt her "knowledge"...some people want to do more than simply share their testimony...