In Reply to: Re: My take...not posted by Pastor Don on April 22, 2010 at 12:20:42:
Hi, guys.
The understanding I have is that the "source" of Adam was God, and that, beginning with Adam's rib, Eve's "source", by God's hand, from Whom everything came, obviously, was simply Adam.
Members of the Trinity are, from eternity past, equal with each other. And, I believe that Adam and Eve were ALSO equal with each other.
In this, I agree with the position of your paper, Pastor Don.
Phil 2's story of Jesus' "kenosis" or emptying, shows that the doctrine of the Trinity is provable in both OT and NT, and that Jesus came from the Father, although, when He was leavingearth to return to Heaven, Jesus said to His first disciples, "I go to my God AND your God". That was BECAUSE the "kenosis" had occurred already, for Jesus to come to earth, and fulfill all the OT prophecies about Himself.
The Trinity has always been comprised of co-equal but not OPPOSITE Persons (like male vs. female), but perfectly yielded to One Another, IN PERFECT LOVE AND COOPERATION.
And Jesus described the Holy Spirit by a MALE personal pronoun, for His Own reasons; though we might not fully understand them.
The CHURCH is THE only entity described by God in Scripture as a female/feminine BRIDE--we are THERE subordinate primarily to Jesus Christ, AS WELL AS to the Father and to the Holy Spirit.
I was, compared/contrasted to you, Farmer, very SLOWLY led back to the REAL gifts of the Spirit (ALL of them, over the years, since leaving TF in '74), and found them to be both safe and readily avaliable, as The Holy Spirit gave them, circumstantially and according to His Own will.
SIMILARLY to you, iw as led away from the "freaked out Pentecostals", when I encountered them, who insisted, enthusiastically and alwasy in one breath, that everyone MUST "be-filled-with-the-HOLY-Ghost-with-the-evidence-of-speaking-in-tongues", and who insisted that a person wasn't even saved unless tongues were produced ON THE SPOT, naturally leading to situations where the majority of people seeking the experience (which is dangerous in the first place!), did what many/most of us did in TF ("Shando Borando...", etc.).
Fleshly/religious IMITATION tongues were FORCED.
I have also encountered backwards Latin demonic tongues spoken by a Satanist Priest, personally trained by Anton Zandor LaVey (Google him--yecch!). It made the hair go up on my neck, I felt like I was coming on to some LSD, and I went and got prayer from some friends, and it went away in about 30 minutes. He lost his $2500 a month job, could only find further work in a Spirit-filled church as a low-pay janitor, and got migraines when he tried to talk to other Satanists--his parents were Assembly of God members; he had told me. I've always prayed for him when I think of him, over the years.
Doctrinally, I try to "major on the majors, and minor on the minors".
Love for God and His Word is something I share with you both.
I have not believed in OSAS in a very long time. Farmer doesn't either, and AG doctrine has historically agreed with that.
However, I have visited AG churches where that's not true, as well as their acceptance of "faith formula" doctrines, as well as some of the "freaked out" variety of Penetecostalism I mentioned.
At this time, so far, I am agreeing with Farmer on marriage/remarriage, and the death of the first spouse releasing us to remarry. I still have a few question; though. And, even if she died, I still might not ever remarry--too much water under the bridge, to much heartbreak and betrayal, etc.
My position on women in ministry, so far, coincides with yours, Pastor Don; according to the paper you posted. Thanks. I cannot see that ALL men spiritually "outrank" ALL women, as your paper stated--I think that, even in a marriage, it's not a matter of inherrent superiority, but of functionality/gifting/anointing.
Some men DO "wuss out"; yes, and the woman does sometimes have to make up the difference, bless her heart, both in marriages, and in ministry--that's a shame.
Men should take the initiative like Christ did, in all things regarding marriage, and in all things that are happening in their particular church--the "five-fold" ministers' jobs are to equip the REST of the rank-and-file church members to "DO THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY"; after all.
Western Christian are mostly LAZY!!!
I APOLOGIZE FOR MY OWN IMPERFECTIONS AS WELL!!!
:-)
OT2