In Reply to: Re: Another View: Will the real Jesus please stand up? posted by CB on June 11, 2010 at 11:07:08:
This is a wonderful subject and whoever brought it up first in history is of course right...and a bit "cute"...when I first read it as a
theme here on the boards...I don't think I replied to it... but I thought to add then:...yes HE will stand up in it's good time...finally at least with HIS return...but then for some it will be too late...First HE came as a baby and a lamb not as the lion of Judah, HE could potentially be the lion all the time, but isn't...also for our sakes, since we're not strong all the time...but many a human pretends to be...
1Cr 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
That verse impressed me a lot since ever I read it...since I knew, how fallible I am...
So the good interpretations...the right one also survive the tests of the times...kind of survival of the fittest ; ).I think it's not wise in the long run, to shun the critics, who think to know all the errors of the Bible...I have read many so called ones myself and found them immediately wanting...with others I needed help and got it...resistance makes you stronger...some may remain dark for longer still, but so what??...I measure my satisfaction not only by the things I"wanting"...but also but what I do have!!!
I read years ago a fantastic biography by a physicists of Indian origin..the description...about the proof of Fermats famous theorem...all the pitfalls on the way to proving it finally some years back.It took the united effort of many mathematicians, generations, over centuries to solve it.Many errors happened on the way and what looked to some really classy mathematicians as some prooof, wasn't when scrutinised by other experts on that field.
What holds true in the world of science of nature...see Heisenberg and Gödel... I think should also impress on anyone reading the Word of God...with Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
I am not so fond of this prophetic stance many Christians of charismatic movements (including TF) have until today...like:He will speak to me...or HE told me...may be...but only and always audibly???I rather go by the preponderance of scripture...the easier understandable scripture explains the rather odd verses, if at all and not the "darker meanings" twist the rest etc....certain principles we learn step by step, even summed up in many good exegetical books.
So what I haven't understood I should not boast myself in.The assistant youth-pastor of our church (he holds a M.A. in math and a B.A. in theology)...admitted his problems with the first epistle of John...first it says, that he that doesn't confess to being a sinner is a liar and later it says that those abiding in HIM sin not etc...it looks like a classical contradiction...he didn't dwell on it, but voiced his "problems" with it....I read it again, because I remember "plagueing" me before...reading some other exegesis about it and "calmed my heart" about it.I believe wrong exegesis never brings you the real peace...better admitting, that one is not sure...at least that is my take since long and when I am really sure about something, because of the overwhelming evidence of scripture etc...like in divorce and remarriage...one should voice it...because we can't be having the expertise on all the different parts of the Bible...but I believe in united efforts...demonstrated also through the internet.It's easier now to get help, then centuries ago.
This for and against stuff...pardon me my not very eloquent talking...can be harmful though...for some Gnostics...the so called failures were the real heroes...like Cain or the people of Korah...then Judas...the gospel of Judas you might know.He is praised in that...you could say without Judas no betrayel etc....are they the brute beasts, created to destroy...kind of alike??Personally I made a pause on such themes...the whole Calvinistic discussion is on halt at the moment here anyway and explained, why I distanced myself from the extreme Calvinistic take.
It takes a lot of insight/time, to garner, glean and discern, where the churches of old started to err...for erring they did....may be you remember the classical verse we crammed down every a stern church Christian's throat:
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
That was almost always a win-situation...I think home-gatherings are fine and good...but the bigger meetings also very advantageous...for that you need some shelter...but not really those cathedrals they "invented"
Anyway...churchhistory is really a "suspense"-story...one realises where others failed too, some is a comfort and a warning likewise.
The real Jesus...for now means the word...the word builds us up and helps us to take a stand...to stand up and sometimes if we choose wrong...interpret wrong...He also stands up against His children...chastising them should not come as a surprise for us, but rather as a wanted correction, like we also appreciate the expertise of teachers in the world...even though their red corrections put us to shame and let others glory in their knowledge and success...yet it's for our better...one can learn from mistakes, if one chooses to.
I admit, that I have often rebelled against His correction and felt, it was "unfair"...I always thought I need correction...but I don't enjoy it, when it comes ; ) ... well, that is also kind of scriptural
So wrong interpretation is sooner or later found wanting...either by fellow-Christians...or directly...may be severely by the Lord..
You hardly have any church discipline anyway anymore in the "majority-churches"...kind of the cozy-feeling-churches...pastors are afraid to loose the flock over an issue
It's amazing to me how many parts of the Bible, portions, are rendered kind of apocryphical...in the NT as not originally of Jesus or of Paul etc...because of so called "inner evidence"...just by counting the words...who uses which words, they scrap of a letter they have problems with...new vocabulary...hence, can't be of Paul etc.
When I read arguments like these I marvel: more evidence you don't have??????
In the meantime I began to suspect, they rather "shoot off" parts of the Bible problematic for their theology...their way of viewing things.The subject is long but in the end I would like to say:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
This is a letter which is also suspect to most "progressive" theologians