This is a contribution to a swiss website (I read today), I frequented very regularly...almost daily over the years...run by kind of "dropouts" from the exclusive brethren...I find a lot of interesting discussions going on...I learned a lot too...and very seldom I posted there...the following article is not of me...but I really understand the issue, it happened to be a big question too for me after I left TF...to whom do we pray...correctly
Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum I hope is known for many of you...a messianic Jew...with quite a big ministry
INITIAL LETTER dated 10th JANUARY 2010:
Date: Munich, 10th January 2010
From: Martin Schneeberg
Schäufeleinstr. 15
D-80687 Munich
Germany
To: Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum
Ariel Ministries
Email:
Webpage: http://www.ariel.org
„First, prayers should not be addressed to the Son, or to the Spirit, or to anyone else.“
Dear Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum,
my name is Martin Schneeberg, I am living in Munich/Germany and I belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am writing this email to you, because of your statement „First, prayers should not be addressed to the Son, or to
the Spirit, or to anyone else“, which is quoted from your document „Components and content of prayer“ first
edition 1987, reconfirmed in edition 2005, page 5.
Your document with your questioned statement could be found in the internet under http://www.ariel.org in the
download area and contains the file name MBS149 or MMBS149. Additional, the meaning of the statement is
once again reconfirmed by you on http://www.ariel.org in the Q&A area “Biblical answers to tough questions” under
the word “prayers”, where you write: “According to the Bible, every prayer should be addressed to the Father
and never to the Son or the Spirit.“
Recently, your statement and your document has been discussed between Christians. It appears that there is a
significant mistake in your statement. I will list the major concern related to your statement and I kindly ask you
to check the rationale:
Underneath is the rationale out of the discussion related to the Fruchtenbaum statement, „First, prayers should
not be addressed to the Son, or to the Spirit, or to anyone else.“:
>>>Start of rationale>>>
Fruchtenbaum clearly teaches that nobody should pray to the Son of God - Jesus Christ.
1. Jesus Christ accepts prayers addressed to himself (Mt 2.2, Mt 2.11, Mt 8.2, Mt 9.18, Mt 14.33, Mt
15.25, Mt 20.20, Mt 28.9, Mt 28.17, Lk 24.52, Joh 9.38).
2. The Father even ordered that prayers should be addressed to the Son (Heb 1.6).
3. In the above 12 verses of the Bible the identical Greek word (proskyneo) is used for worshiping the
Son, as in other verses it is used to worship the Father (e.g. in Mt 4.10, Rev 22.9). Check e.g. the codex
sinaiticus for the Greek word “proskyneo”.
Now a real conflict exists, should we address prayers to the Lord Jesus Christ or should we not do it?
Jesus Christ has never rebuked nor censured prayers addressed to himself (see above 12 bible verses). We could
not imply Jesus Christ a shortcoming of understanding related to the teaching of prayers. Consequently Jesus
Christ has wittingly accepted prayers addressed to himself and therefore he has justified and confirmed these
prayers. If Jesus Christ, the Father and the word of God (the bible) are not mistaken, then the error could only be
on the side of Fruchtenbaum.
2
In the Church of God Dr. Fruchtenbaum would be stopped, because in the Church of God the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ is called on, 1.Kor 1.2: „To the Church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and
called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ – their Lord
an ours.”
What outside of the Church of God, in other institution (Kingdom hall of Jehova witnesses, bible-school Brake,
Boston Church of Christ, Ariel Ministries, etc.) is tolerated, taught or practiced is not decisive at all.
At such central and decisive topics, like “prayers addressed to Jesus Christ”, real Christians have to contend for
the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints (Jud 3), due to the following reasons:
Would Christians follow the theology of Fruchtenbaum, then additionally the following bible verses must be
forbidden, these which support to call on the name Jesus Christ: Act 4.10-12, Act 7.59-60, Act 9.14, Act 9.21,
Act 22.16, Ro 10.9-13, 1Cor 1.2, 1Cor 12.3, Rev 22.20.
These Bible verses (especially Act 4.10-12, Ro 10.9-13) testify, that without calling on the name Jesus Christ (=
prayers addressed to the Son) no salvation is possible. Whoever follow Dr. Fruchtenbaum’s theology, hinders
salvation. Therefore we have here an other gospel. According Gal 1.8-9 everyone who follows Fruchtenbaums
theology will be condemned.
The best translation of Dr. Fruchtenbaums Theology „Prayers should not be addressed to the Son“ can be given
by: „Go to the hell“.
At this point:
- The phD (Dr.-title) from Dr. Fruchtenbaum does not help,
- the Jewish background from Fruchtenbaum does also not help,
- the justification as teacher of the bible-school Brake does not help either,
- even the real apostles (Paul, Peter, John, i.e. the 11 and Matthias and Paul) could not justify the theology of
Fruchtenbaum according Gal 1.8-9,
- even an angel from heaven would be condemned by following Fruchtenbaums teaching about prayers.
Gal 1.8-9: „But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to
you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to
you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!“
>>>End of rationale>>>.
As you can see from the rationale above, your statement is a major mistake. I assume that the rationale based on
the word “proskyneo” and also the aspect about “call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ” was unknown to you
until today and you therefore have made the wrong statements. To come out of the trap, I kindly ask you to do
the following:
A) Please delete the following statements from your internet webpage:
- „First, prayers should not be addressed to the Son, or to the Spirit, or to anyone else“,
- “According to the Bible, every prayer should be addressed to the Father and never to the Son or the Spirit.“
B) Please put the following statement on your internet webpage:
- To get saved prayers MUST BE addressed to JESUS CHRIST, who will become Lord over the person called
on his name LORD JESUS CHRIST.
I appreciate and looking for an answer from you.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Kind regards,
Martin Schneeberg / Munich
3
**************************************
ANSWER by Mr. Fruchtenbaum, dated 28th APRIL 2010:
Dear Martin Schneeberg:
Thank you for your e-mail letter of January 11, 2010.
I think you are confusing the difference between worship and praying.
Worship has to do with ascribing worth to someone but praying has to do with
making specific requests to the God you do not see. So while certainly
there are examples of worshiping the Son, there is no example I see where
they make direct praise to the Son and merely speaking to Him face to face
would not be the same as praying.
Now, let's look at the verses you listed:
Matthew 2:2 - the wise men simply said they came to worship Him, but
that is not the same as praying to Him.
Matthew 2:11 - yes the wise men worshiped the baby boy, but that is
not the same as praying to the baby boy. Again, there seems to be
confusion as to the difference between praying and worship.
Matthew 8:2 - this again deals with worship and not praying.
Furthermore, he is addressing someone He sees and not merely
talking to the visible Jesus which is not the same as praying. Certainly
the Pharisees and Sadducees who were His enemies also frequently spoke to
Him but they were hardly praying to Him.
Matthew 9:18 - Here again this has to do with worship and not
praying to a specific God.
Matthew 14:33 - Here again it is merely worship and speaking to what
they actually see is not the same as praying.
Matthew 15:25 - Once again this is worship and speaking to what one
sees, but this is not the same as prayer.
Matthew 20:20 - Here again it is dealing with worship and not
praying to the invisible God and when they are speaking to Him they
are speaking to someone who is standing in front of Him.
Matthew 28:9 - Once again it merely states that they worshiped Him
and did not pray to Him.
Matthew 28:17 - Here again, it is only worship and not praying.
Luke 24:52 - Once again it simply says He was worshiped but not
prayed to.
John 9:38 - Once again the word is worship and not praying. This is
a command for the angels to worship Him, but says nothing about man
praying to Him.
I never said one should not worship the Son, but what I said was that the
Bible does not have any examples of anybody praying to the Son.
I might also point out that the tendency to pray to Jesus is quite common in
Germany as I notice in my travels. I have never heard anyone address their
prayers to God the Father which is what Jesus himself instructed us to do.
4
That is not the policy elsewhere in the world and in the United States
virtually every church you go to and whatever the denomination is they will
be addressing their prayers to God the Father in the name of the Son. The
Messianic congregations in Israel also follow the same policy of addressing
their prayers to the Father and not the Son because that is what the Bible
tells them to do.
What you need to do is make a word study of the difference between
worshipping, calling, and praying, and those are three different areas all
together. What you have not shown me is a single verse where anyone is
actually praying to God the Son.
With this letter in PDF form I will be including a copy of our manuscript
entitled "Prayers in the New Testament" where I traced every prayer recorded
in the New Testament and consistently every prayer is address to God the
Father and not to God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.
So there is no need to change what we have in our manuscript, you need to
study the Bible more carefully to see the difference between worship,
calling, and praying.
Yours for the salvation of Israel,
Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum
Director
AGF/dcv
Attachment: Prayers in the New Testament
********************************************
SECOND LETTER dated 12th MAY 2010:
Dear Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum,
you suggested a “word study” of the difference between worshipping, calling, and praying. Agreed, word study
first:
METHOD 1: Word study “worship, calling, praying”:
A) Word study “worship”:
The Greek word for “worship” is „proskunew“ = „proskyneo“ with our letters. The word „proskyneo“ appears
in the new testament exclusively within the following verses:
To CHRIST: Mt 2.2, Mt 2.8, Mt 2.11, Mt 8.2, Mt 9.18, Mt 14.33, Mt 15.25, Mt 20.20, Mt 28.9, Mt
28.17, Mk 5.6, Mk 15.19 (in scoff), Lk 24.52, Joh 9.38, Heb 1.6
To the FATHER: Mt 4.10, Lk 4.8, Joh 4.20, 4.21, 4.22, 4.23, 4.24, Mt 18.26 (in parable), Joh 12.20, Apg
8.27, Act 24.11, 1Cor 14.25, Heb 11.21, Rev 3.9, Rev 4.10, Rev 11.1, Rev 11.16, Rev 14.7,
Rev 15.4, Rev 19.4, Rev 22.9
To the FATHER and to CHRIST: Rev 5.14, Rev 7.11
To others:
Satan wants it: Mt 4.9, Lk 4.7
Figures in the past: Act 7.43 (as a bad example)
5
To Peter: Act 10.25-26 (is rejected)
To demons: Rev 9.20
To Satan: Rev 13.4
To the beast: Rev 13.4, 13.8, 13.12, 14.9, 14.11, 20.4
To the image of the best: Rev 13.15, 16.2, 19.20
To Angels: Rev 19.10, 22.8-9 (is rejected).
This list is complete and shows that in the New Testament the word worship (proskunew, proskyneo) is
exclusively used for godly worshipping (to Father and/or to Son), in all other cases it is rejected and unmasked
as wrong worship! The message from the bible is crystal clear: Jesus Christ is worshiped as God.
B) Word study “praying”:
The Greek word for “praying” is „proseuchomai“. According your definition:
“Praying (= proseuchomai) has to do with making
- specific requests (criteria #1),
- to the God (criteria #2)
- you do not see (criteria #3).”
I assume, that there is no doubt, that:
- Jesus Christ is GOD, Criteria #2 is fulfilled.
- That we can not “really see” Jesus Christ physically with our eyes right now, Criteria #3 is fulfilled.
So let us find out, if there is any example in the bible, which supports to make a “specific request” (criteria #1
addressed to the God JESUS CHRIST, whom he can not see, either by the word “proseuchomai” or by it’s
meaning “specific request to the invisible God”:
I checked your suggested document MBS147 “Prayer in New Testament History”, because you claim that it
contains every prayer in the New Testament:
Acts 1.24-26: “And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of
these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by
transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon
Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
The disciples prayed to the invisible Lord a specific request. So the question is, who is this Lord, the Son or the
Father?
A) The Lord is identified 3 verses before in Acts 1.21 with Lord Jesus. How can you replace the Son here with
the Father?? The context identified the Lord as Jesus Christ!!
B) The specific request in Acts 1.24 is whom the Lord will give the apostelship? ALL apostels including Paul
received their apostelship directly from JESUS CHRIST and they are called apostels of Jesus Christ not apostels
of the Fathers!! So how could you claim that the Father gave the apostelship to Matthias?
C) Are there two different Lords (Eph 4.5)? Obviously not!
RESULT: Actually this first specific request in prayer after Jesus returned to heaven proves your opinion
wrong. That means in the bible prayers are addressed to the Son.
Acts 8.24: “Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have
spoken come upon me.”
Here it is spoken about a specific prayer to the Lord to forgive a sin.
A) A few verses before in Acts 8.16 the Lord is identified by Lord Jesus.
B) Note: Based on Mt 9.6 and based on the cross it should be clear, that there is only ONE address where sins
could be forgiven, it is the address JESUS CHRIST!! There is no bypass way to the Father directly (Joh 14.6).
Therefore your statement “Prayers should not be addressed to the Son” could not be hold.
Acts 9.40: In the New testament prayers are often recorded without specification to whom it was addressed. So
based on the context it could often not be mentioned which address (Son or Father) has been chosen. Both are
God and both we could not see in our time. I will NOT record all the unspecific prayers here, this example Acts
9.40 should be enough.
Acts 12.5: In the New testament prayers are often addressed to God without specification to whom it was
addressed God Son or God Father. So it could often not be mentioned which address (Son or Father) has been
chosen. I will NOT record all the prayers addressed in general to God, this example Acts 12.5 should be enough.
6
Actually the most times where the word „proseuchomai“ (= pray) appears in the New Testament, it could not be
proven that it was addressed to God the Father, it might be addressed to God the Son..
2 Cor 12.8: “For this I thrice besought the Lord that it might depart from me. And he said to me, My grace
suffices thee; for my power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses,
that the power of the Christ may dwell upon me.”
Who is the Lord, the Father or the Son?
- Paul prayed to the Lord. The Lord of Paul is Jesus Christ.
- The Lord who answered spoke about his power and Paul identified it with the power of Christ.
C) Word study “calling”:
Objective evidence that the name Jesus Christ is called, is given in: Acts 4.10-12, Acts 7.59-60, Acts 9.14, Acts
9.21, Acts 22.16, Ro 10.9-13, 1Cor 1.2, 1Cor 12.3, Rev 22.20.
METHOD 2: The whole bible study:
You said: “Prayers should not be addressed to the Son (= Jesus Christ).” Furthermore you said: “Praying has to
do with making specific requests to the God you do not see.”
Based on these two statements I assume you have never prayed like this: “Lord Jesus Christ, please forgive me
my sins and become my Lord and savior.” Could you confirm this? If my conclusion is right, the consequence
would be:
- You have never prayed to Jesus Christ: So you do not have a relation to him,
- You have never asked Jesus Christ to become your Lord: So he is not your Lord,
- You have never asked Jesus Christ to forgive your sins: So the important step (Mt 9.6) in your life is still
outstanding.
- You have not yet turned to Jesus Christ: So you are not a Christian and you do not have eternal life in
heaven.
John 14:6 – “Jesus says to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, unless by
me.”
If John 14:6 is right, how could you pray to the Father if you have never come to the Son? How could you come
to the Son, if you have never asked/begged him in prayer to forgive your sins and become your Lord?
If you “call on” the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, but you do not speak (=pray to the unseeable God = Jesus
Christ) with him, you do not ask him to forgive your sins (= specific request), what is it? Do you claim to be a
Christian?
Acts 7.55-60: “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw ((#1)) the glory of
God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of
man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran
upon him with one accord, And cast ((#2)) him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their
clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned ((#3)) Stephen, calling upon God, and
saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit ((#4)). And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord ((#5)), lay
not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
During Stephen was in the city, he saw Jesus ((#1)).
After this Stephen was cast out of the city. There is no hint, that Stephan still saw Jesus after he was cast out
of the city. ((#2)).
Then, outside of the city they stoned Stephen. As well during Stephen was stoned outside the city there is no
hint that he saw his Lord Jesus at this moment. ((#3)).
Then, during Stephen was stoned, he made a specific request (= prayer in its meaning) to the Lord Jesus
“receive my spirit” ((#4)).
Then Stephen made his second specific request to Jesus “he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord,
lay not this sin to their charge.
- Actual Stephen prayed for forgiveness of his murders,
- Stephen addressed this specific request to the God Son who is responsible to forgive sins.
7
- During Stephen was stoned and during he kneeled down it is not logically to claim, that he still looked up to
heaven and saw Jesus like before in the city. Most probably under this stone-hail and during kneeling down
Stephen looked down to earth and prayed to God Sun whom he did not see at this moment ((#5)).
I can imagine, that with intelligent arguments (like your documents mbs147 and mbs149) you might could
offend the faith of young believer in the Lord Jesus Christ for a certain time. But if you consider the millstone
explained by Jesus Christ in Mt 18.6, I doubt that you are doing something good for your own soul.
Joh 5.23: “That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.” If you do not pray to Jesus,
but to the Father, then you violate Joh 5.23, because you do not honour the Son on the same level like the
Father. You reserve “praying” exclusively to the Father – NOT to the Son!!
Your teaching is strange and tricky, you skip the important part, how someone could be saved. Your one-sided
view prevent sinners to find the way to Christ for their salvation. This is a dangerous action.
Joh 14.14: “If ye shall ask ME* any thing in my name, I will do it.”
Some scriptures and translations don’t have the word ME* used in Joh 14.14, but other Greek scriptures have
used the word ME, e.g. Codex Sinaiticus, Byzantine Text, Westcott and Hort, Nestle-Aland, others.
Mt 11.28: “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
Was this only possible before Jesus died on the cross? I think it is possible to come to Jesus even today in prayer.
2Cor 114: “For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive
another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear
with him.”
Your message Arnold Fruchtbaum: “Prayers should not be addressed to the Sun” consequently leads to:
- another Jesus: Your Jesus is not worthy to be prayed. Somehow you showed Jesus Christ as smaller than the
Father. This is also done by many wrong denominations, like Jehova Witnesses (Jesus = Archangel Michael),
Catholic Church (Jesus = Baby of Maria), Islam (Jesus = A prophet only), etc.
- another spirit: In Joh 16.14 it is written about the Spirit of truth “He shall glorify me”. Somehow you
managed exactly the opposite = not to glorify the Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, because you prevent that
someone prays to JESUS CHRIST.
- another gospel: Definitely you prevent that sinners will find their way to Jesus Christ by not allowing them to
make the most important specific request to the God Jesus which they can not see, in prayer, to ask for their
forgiveness of their sins.
Now Arnold Fruchtenbaum I think it’s time for you to:
- Pray to Jesus Christ: “Lord Jesus Christ, please forgive me my sins and become my Lord and Savior.”
- Remove mbs147 and mbs149 from your internet webpage.
- Send letters to those Churches and bible schools which you have irritated with your false message “Prayers
should not be addressed to the Son” and apologize for it and witness the opposite “Prayers has to be addressed to
Jesus Christ to get saved”.
1Joh 5.12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”
Rev 22.20: God stopped any wrong teaching ones for ever by putting the last specific prayer to the Lord Jesus at
the end of the bible: “Amen; come, Lord Jesus”.
Kind regards – Martin Schneeberg / Munich-Germany
********************************************