In Reply to: Are you aware how offensive your question is? posted by Alan on January 17, 2004 at 13:00:06:
Sir, Your still not getting it!
AG wrote:
“On the other hand, how do we know that someone is following Jesus' teachings in a satisfactory manner? TF claims to be doing just that.
Ultimately, we
can't pass judgement on who is or is not a true disciple of Jesus; or, for that matter, who is or is not a recipient of God's grace. We can only
say, 'The
Family does not follow my understanding of the Way, and here's one reason why...Jesus said pray FOR your enemies, not pray AGAINST
them.'”
You couldn't let that rest, but you replied:
“That would only be true if one subscribes to some form of religious relativism, or if one does not use the Bible as a standard against which to
judge the doctrines and practices of religious groups. Christ said that "By their fruits ye shall know them." ”
Are you insecure? Do you see that as an affront to your faith? I ask because you had to go label AG a relativist. That is a loaded coded word for a confused person who doesn't know what the truth is since there is only one truth, and that's the version you have.
Since you were so eager to take away her point, I asked:
“Since you are able to see fruits and judge them bad or good, you are able to look into men's souls and judge who is or is not a true disciple of
Jesus?
Are you also able to determine who is or is not a recipient of God's grace?
Are you able to say YOU have the 100% correct understanding of THE WAY today, and we should follow you?
Are you saying if I pray for my enemies I subscribe to relativism, even though that is specifically what JESUS asked me to do?
Do you think you are too cocky for your own good and have a thing about wanting to have and give all the answers to everyone for
everything? Have you no respect for anyone else's ability to determine anything for themselves? ”
Now I ask again:
Can you pass judgement on who is or is not a true disciple of Jesus?
Can you judge who is or is not a recipient of God's grace.
Can you say The Family does not follow not only yours but everyone's understanding of the Way?
(Does that mean that all who were or are in The Family were not sincerely deceived but everyone of them willfully disobedient? Do you get it at all? Try using some crticial thinking skills!)
Are you saying if I pray FOR my enemies, not pray AGAINST them that I am also a relativist?
I asked, because you had a problem with what AG said and spoke against it in your usual fashion.
Why didn't you simply speak for YOURSELF? Because you are able to say for YOURSELF, that you understand that the Family is not following God.
When you wrote here
“Of two things I am certain: Jesus is Lord, and he has given us the Bible to guide our lives.” That was perfect. You spoke for yourself, told your testimony. You can even explain why, and say what verses speak to your heart, and share them. I'd be happy to hear that. My problem with you is your labeling and putting down other people all the time, and act like you have an answer for everything.
So I asked, and I ask again:
how long is it that you've had this certainty of your absolute truth figured out?
let's say it was 2 years ago.
did you grow spiritually since then?
have you learned anything since then, like a better understanding of the Bible
has your understanding of the word been deepened or expanded in anyway?
if yes, doesn't that mean that the "truth" you had 2 years ago was in some way less complete or less developed than it is now?
how then could your "truth" back then have been truly absolute and complete?
will you grow spirtually in 2 years?
does that make you a relativist?
do we throw out seeing through a glass darkly and every man is right in his own eyes?
Please, Alan! I respect you for your faith, believe it or not! PLEASE show a little respect to others and their discovery process and the manner in which choose to go about their journey. They said they are happy with it.