In Reply to: Re: "sin".. posted by ray on April 12, 2004 at 04:13:40:
OK first off I apologize if I came off in a rude or flippant manner. I was trying to express skepticism and I see from your response that I did not do so in a useful manner, rather I blurted what came to my head without considering that nobody could be expected to understand my cryptic mutterings.
Your post did not offend me (except maybe the part about mankind being "conceived in sin" which i think is a pernicious idea), seeing it is on this board where I guess I am "asking for it" ("it" being such things as "personal testimony, the concept of sin, or just Jesus" -- as you put it -- etc.) by merely reading this board. And BTW, I do agree with your statement about "a cabin in the woods won't fix it, as most monks and hermits testify," so it's not like I mean to disagree just to be contrary.
What your post did was not offend but bewilder me. It puzzled me because you quoted some very interesting statements, which get my attention, and then you conclude "that is essentially the issue, in a much more personal context, that drove me to my knees, and led me to encounter the one of whom it is written, "whom to know is life eternal."" This leaves me scratching my head.
To be honest, I am not sure what that means, and is it any better after? How? Why? It's like Greek to me. To me *personally*, it's hollow, I don't see what the value is, and all I meant to say is "so?" But I should probably keep that to myself, what's the point. My mistake.
I guess I just don't see why I need to treat with kid gloves any assertions that *to me* seem like just a string of words that do not correspond to anything in reality, or why my perception of them as mere constructs standing for nothing should be deserving of any more ridicule than someone's perception that they are meaningful and signify something of value. That is where I am on my "Journey," and I don't think it makes it any less of a valid journey or me less of a traveler.
You say "sorry your experience has led to the disdain w/ which you apparently now veiw personal faith." But I don't view personal faith per se with disdain. Sometimes it can even be touching and I'm very glad if it does something good for those who hold it. I have even been known to respectfully accompany a friend to a religious service that is meaningful to them (most recently, yesterday, and it was in honor of your favorite).
I do however view with scepticism a myriad of claims like yours. This does not matter at all unless such claims and what is behind them are meant to be communicable and have objective meaning (and I am only one person, maybe you are communicating them with devastating efficacy to others). Then again, don't let my reaction bother you, since maybe your intent was to preach to the choir and all I am is deaf ears on stony ground or whatever.
With the "warranty" question, all I was trying to do was express my frustration at not knowing what stands behind such words as "work Jesus is doing" on someone (or by that token words such as those you supplied in an attempt to answer my apparently ill-put question by pursuing the Jesus-as-Engineer analogy further).
Re.: "wish you better luck next time," please don't wish me that...wish me there won't be a next time!
I'll try to be more pleasant.