In Reply to: Yes, much more posted by Question on March 07, 2005 at 10:35:07:
I didn't present my full views, so I understand your take on my post. You said, 'Correct me if I am wrong but based on your words I understand the christianity you favor is one of observe, analyze & think about it. Once you get convinced that there must be something in that, then you embrace it. It seems to me void of spiritual connection to a greater power that goes beyond what little rules and arguments one could concoct.'
No, I'm not saying that. I was intentionally emphasizing the rational side of things (God gave us minds after all) because to me there is a built-in danger of relying on emotional experiences & thinking that there has to be a big feeling or whatever. Feelings can be deceptive as we all know. Even in Jesus' parable of the seeds, he warned against those who 'receive the word with joy but have no root.' So just an emotional experience is not enough. Just 'feeling the love' is not enough.
I know you're not talking JUST about emotions, but I wanted to cover that base anyway because to many people (maybe not to you) spiritual & emotional are so closely linked. But what I think you're talking about is that faith is not just a rational thinking process, but that at some point it becomes spiritual & you connect with God in a very real way. Yes, that's true, but this spiritual change is not always evident. The evidence of a spiritual change is not always that a visible miracle happens, one's face glows, etc. though that can happen.
While I realize that there are levels of 'knowing' & that sometimes you can intuitively know on a deep sense (what is probably spiritual) that a change has happened, I would caution against people deciding the a spiritual change has happened based upon emotional reactions. Those things are great but are NOT primary evidence, in my view. I believe that the primary proof of a spiritual birth is a changed life, a desire to love God & fellowman.
Yes, God is at work behind the scenes, there is the whole spiritual side of things, because there is simply more than just this material world as we understand it, but I'm just saying, God gave us thinking minds & Christianity should & does make sense on a rational level. In Isaiah 1:18 God says, 'Come & let us REASON together.'
I agree some people have experienced dramatic & remarkable change after inviting Jesus into their lives, even if they went into the prayer not understanding EVERYthing. However, you must understand what you are committing yourself to, at least. I have seen so, so, so many so-called duck-your-head prayers prayed that did absolutely nothing because the person had no idea what they were committing their minds & heart & lives to. How can you love God with all your MIND & heart & soul if your mind isn't even engaged in the process?
I have even heard of cases where a Family member TRICKED someone into praying the prayer. I've seen with my own eyes where the Family member didn't even ask if the person was already a Christian or not, but preached a long spiel & then said 'bow your head' only to find that they'd already prayed the prayer.
I don't think we're at cross-arguments here, so much as bringing out different sides of the same one.