In Reply to: There you go again posted by Thinker on January 18, 2003 at 01:24:02:
I see that you were offended at my, 'assumption' that you took a personal dislike to the author of the book, 'Dialectic and Praxis' - Dean Gotcher.
Yet you essentially said that, 'He was full of shit' and then compared his presentation of six or so years of research to David Berg's type of mind bending, while fully aware of the implications of making such a comparison among ex-COGs. The podsnapperish manner in which you dismissed his views betrays your own insecurities, and I quote you, "If the only way to achieve security is through attacking others, this demonstrates insecurity. Not to mention a lack of respect or understanding for others."
I found your response to be filled with contradictions.
EG. "The Word of God may or may not be an authority in my life." (Is it possible to realistically say something like that on the one hand, and then turn around and claim to a Christian later on?)
"Questioning (God)is not logically a departure from God."
Eve, I am quite certain, would disagree with you. Doubting God is the first step in departing from Him. And God makes it clear that, "That which is not of faith is sin."
"I take issue with your deciding that Berg is sitting in hell. That may be your understanding, and it may even be mine, but have you been to hell to have a look? Isn't that kind of judgement best left up to God?"
Yes it is and so I am taking the liberty of quoting His Word(His judgment.)so as to dispel any doubts you may have concerning David Berg's whereabouts. The book of Jude.
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
I have been in situations, where this group-think social conditioning that he warns about was being practiced. This is how it most often operates. You have a small group with a facilitator, where perhaps one member is a Christian who believes and accepts God's system of values. The goal of the group is to use common concerns as ground upon which to forge a consensual agreement. Christian values expressed are quite often dismissed and when they are not, they are blended with the moral values of those present in order to have a consensus. (IE. It is OK to lie when to do so doesn't hurt anyone.)(Doesn't hurt anyone? Read Rev.21:8) (The Christian values held by the Christian are in effect being subjected to an array (volley) of differing opinions, the synthesis of which is considered binding on those involved.)While in most cases any reference to God's Word is simply dismissed as a, 'religious opinion' that is not considered relevant to the process, while at the same time the consensual views arrived at by the majority through the process are treated as precious metal being refined. I certainly wouldn't want to be a Jew participating in a group-think consensus with half a dozen Nazis. (The program itself cannot be other than invasive and undermining to any minority held view exposed to such a process.)The Christian participating in such a mind meld, is placed at a great disadvantage, by social pressure to compromise his/her values for the sake of unity. The process itself insults the beliefs of the Christian and can undermine the faith of the believer unless he/she refuses to let go of their own scripturally based values, in which case he/she will most likely be driven out of the proceedings while the rest continue on after their imaginations insisting that truth can be arrived at through a so-called democratic voting process. (Built upon a godless communist system of thought control and psycho-babble.) But everyone has a choice, they can merge with this anti-christ world system or call on Jesus Christ to save them from this untoward generation. Whoops! I forgot, there I go again preaching. I will give myself a slap, feel guilty as Hell, crawl on my hands and knees upon jagged rocks, repent in sackcloth and ashes and pray earnestly that God repairs the damage incurred to anyone's comfort zone. Not! There are far too many Christians already sitting on the fence.