In Reply to: Re: Conditions posted by mark on January 18, 2006 at 08:10:34:
Hey, Farmer!
Mark's right, IMO, regarding his assessment of your comments to "Skep".
You are very kind. I try to be, as well, but I feel that sometimes part of that kindness is to answer statements more in a "head-on" manner. Both are necessary, at different times.
I enjoyed your inclusion of Gödel’s theorem. Actually, the argument has been around long before the 1930's, as a history student can easily attest.
I like what Immanuel Kant's observation that an infinite God could easily create a universe infinite in spatial dimensions of width, breadth and height, all from eternity. I also like Isaac Newton's ironic joke that if the universe were actually finite, that, given the reality of gravity, and enough time, all matter would eventually clump together at its supposed center. He also posited that God, as the Trinity, has always inhabited eternity, but that material time is a "little t" to eternity's "Big T".
Some of the pseudo-scientific anti-Christian assertions about Gödel make a lot of silly circular statements about finitude and infinitude, regarding the universe, but I must say that that is because they regard their idol, "Science; falsely so-called...intruding into those things, not seen", if you will, not as representative mathematical probability guesses ABOUT reality, but as reality itself.
Simply put, they become like their idol. According to Romans chapter One, accepting those fantasy-based beliefs actually "does something" in their minds and souls--they become like their false gods, as Scripture promises they will. Math is a self-definitive language about assumptions about reality, and is itself a finite set. Gödel merely extended that logic to its unavoidable conclusion.
Immanuel Kant stated that man's infinite mind cannot "approach" much lees "prove or disprove" God. That agrees with Scripture—Ecclesiastes said that “God has set eternity in man’s heart, so that he might NOT KNOW ALL” about creation. Other Scripture says that God has “subjected the creature unto vanity BY REASON OF HOPE” (because of His gift to us of true free will). He says that if any man wants to become wise in this world, he must “become a fool that he may be MADE wise” (reference?). God does leave us without excuse, in what His creation says about itself, when regarded with philosophical honesty, and an honest approach to science.
We are told in Scripture that the greatest commandment is to "love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves." That's not JUST with the mind--to obey that command takes everything we've got; as it should. The "heart, soul...and strength" part has its own proof: Jesus said that "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine; whether it is of God, or whether I speak of myself".
He said that as the Second Adam; an unfallen, perfect man. We only get little glimpses, but we are truly "without excuse concerning His power and...deity".
Thanks for the opportunity to share my opinion.
Respectfully,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)