In Reply to: Necessary Definitions posted by OT2 on January 20, 2006 at 14:50:42:
Thanks OT2 for the "supper"...quite a meal, first I feared to choke, or getting indigestions, but with time I got used to language & knowledge-gap...it'd take time to answer thoroughly, even from my limited capacity, limited as I am anyway, but I wanted to react & not let you wait too long.
Isn't your posed philosophical dilemma equivalent to the question, whether there's a logical proof, that there's no God?To my knowledge no.The Atheist doesn't like the various
scholastical proofs of God...in German you distinguish meanwhile by the distinction in the
prefix: Erweis instead of the strict Beweis=proof
Furthermore the proof of Gödel wasn't the breakthrough may be either.Above my head for the moment.Fact is the Atheist has no proof either.
I thought it was funny to read on movingon by the contributor lance, that the burden of proof lies with the Theist.Is that so?Well, the attempts were not appreciated, much less when God sent His son & diverse prophets & very altruistic helpers...still it doesn't convince them...Jules mentioned once in a post of hers her favourite philosopher, Adams?Mencken?...anyway he claimed to know, that there is no God....didn't see anything convincing in his mental production yet though.
And yes chance, how can chance & time explain the origin of the species, much less seem scientist to know, what happened in t=0...isn't that a singularity?I only saw them juggle with tiny fractions of seconds...a f t e r big bang.
I am not following all this at the moment....matter of time, brain capacity and a matter of reward?What's the use, so to speak.
Unlike you, I don't need to know as champion of defense neither Descartes nor Newton, though they might be helpful.
Either I believe in the Word of God, that HE speaks to us, wants those things to be remembered or he'd be more of a Greek God, who doesn't care too much or who has no clear position either.
I think I/we have to get back to what Skep wrote in her reply...a bit the notion, idea, how do we know we are Christians....I asked some month ago a Lutheran theologian about that & he answered:
you don't expect me to answer that...my question was, how would we know in a congregation, who is saved & who isn't...I share my view later
I think we who believe in God, don't need these
feeble proofs of the mind, to feeble for the Atheists liking...in that portion about Lazarus, the rich man & Abraham, it was said, that they wouldn't even believe, if someone rose from the dead.They have the Word & they should hear that.
So all in all, whatever subject you touched, whether free will, the fall of Satan, Calvinism,
predestination or not...all that would have to be solely weighed by the scriptures...nothing else.Otherwise we'd believe, that there are other great prophets, not contained in the books of the Bible with equal or higher value & then we're close to very charismatic & then Bergian/Paulk-thinking.They have so many false prophecies, it's pitiful...still they don't get the point...the false prophet is out with his false prophecy...the Jonah-ace doesn't work there either.
Calvinism I am opposed to from several points of view, however the scriptures brought up by them must be very well considered.I really treasured the thoughts of Luther in the German light version of : De servo arbitrio
He definetely distincts between the realm of the inferior and the superior...things we can decide upon & others where we can't.
If I'd say, I decided to become a Christian, I made a decision for Jesus, then that'd give Jürgen too much credit in they eyes of Luther & I agree with him, for I don't want any credit in that...if decisionmaking is a form of work, then that'd be work and offending Eph.2:8,9 & some other scriptures.So all this boasting of people, how they decided themselves for HIM, personally I can't stand...it smacks of pride.
I am off here for now...these subject belong rather in the superweight formation of faithmatters...nonetheless I attempted a first tiny answer.
This is a good summary about the various forms of atheism.(I am convinced, that the agnostic is smarter than the atheist)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism