For those who don't know, Joel was probably THE original Bible Teachers in TF, in the early years.
He posts on NDN; alot. He still beleives he's a great teacher, who should, believe it or not,
promote, yes, a literal resurection of DB, and
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Here goes:
Posted By: OT2 <Send E-Mail>
Date: Monday, 30 January 2006, at 12:51 p.m.
In Response To: Clarification & Update of 70 Weeks posed by Daniel (Joel)
Joel:
The Jesus Movement began in San Francisco--you weren't there, and had nothing to do with it. And, Berg wasn’t there, and he didn’t start it.
That was 1965, not '68. Berg had already had molestation experiences with both sexes as a child, himself, had cheated on his wife massively, while still in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, had already molested Faithy, and had his eyes on Deborah--he had "eyes full of adultery, and could not cease from sin".
He was a hardcore reprobate when you first met him, Joel; not a man of God--not even a Christian.
God saved people in spite of him, NEVER because of him. Face it: there NEVER WAS A SO-CALLED JESUS REVOLUTION.
Berg was only a revolting old failure, and not a revolutionary of any kind; especially a Christian one--get real. Neither were you, or any of us.
He was actively pursuing ANYTHING BUT the real Gospel, or promoting an actual Christian lifestyle--his always was, and will always be, a DEATHstyle.
With "feigned words", he "made merchandise" of all of us who CHOSE to follow him. He promised us "liberty", while he himself was only a "servant of corruption": he was NEVER even a servant of God; much less someone chosen and called to "speak for" Him. He just corrupted Messianic prophecies--read 'em again, Joel. They were all about Jesus, and Berg chose to turn HIMSELF into a worthless turd.
He came to Huntington Beach, still under the shadow of his emasculating Mommy, took over something SHE started, old "scarcely saved", eagerly dishonest self-promoter also-ran pseudo-evangelist actually unrepentant lukewarm puke that she always was, and found a way to pull a long con on the young and naive, by creating a cult that was merely his own life, writ large.
He found a way to preserve and promote his own megalomaniacal religious and sexual perversions and filth, in the lives of others.
He began with a "root of bitterness" and, predictably, ended up with a profane and adulterous life, and worse. He moved on to sexually molest children, even his own; even his own grandchildren. He refused to put away "all filthiness of the flesh and spirit"; choosing instead to revel in it, and to encourage every kind of abomination.
The following you then joined went on to become everything the Bible warns us about regarding false prophets, false brethren, and false teachers.
That means you; Joel Wordsworth. You are a fake. And, that's the "truth, spoken in love". You can quote a lot of Scripture, Joel. You just don't choose to live any of it. What you say "falls to the ground". It has no authority--no "punch"; no actual reality in the real kingdom of God, and it NEVER WILL; should you continue to hold on to Berg's turds. It's NOT good to "Be a Toilet", and "you ARE what you EAT".
You got swept in, like the rest of us. You became a false teacher for a false prophet.
An old black comedienne, Moms Mabely, said someone told her "You should only speak good of the dead" when she complained about her dead "beatin' and cheatin'" ex-husband.
Along with her response, I echo it in reference to Berg: "He's dead! Good!"
He's not coming back, and you will never be important. It was, and is, a very small cult, full of nasty little perverts, bullies, Gospel bums who actually DO know better, and FOREVER "halting baby Christians" who have REFUSED to grow up and believe the Bible over Berg's and Maria's frauds, forgeries and demon-channelings, some for OVER 30+ YEARS; mostly.
Don't forget the children born into it. They are probably NOT "seeking to be teachers" to the entire body of Christ, worldwide; they'll be innocent till they attain the "age of accountability", and choose to ignore their own consciences and common sense, and what the Bible plainly says, and choose to promote Berg's drivel.
And, again predictably, most people who see them on the street will probably just feel continue to fell sorry for them; like I do for them--like I also do for you.
Do you still want THAT for a legacy? You're not getting the one you're still fantasizing about; Joel.
What about you? Do you WANT the "greater condemnation" that comes from that self-aggrandizing desire? Really? Do you just HAVE to think of yourself as some "great teacher"?
You are not. You have been, and to the degree that you believe and push ANY of Berg's crap, still are a FALSE TEACHER; yourself. Let it go; it's not real, and has terrible consequences. And you know that's true--God did NOT send you to post here to draw us back into Berg's vile ways. Please DROP IT!
Please; for your own sake. You could also be a tremendous testimony as a FORMER false teacher of a horrible little false prophet who conned mostly a bunch of unstable hippie-wannabes; myself included. Don't continue to partake of his sin--it's a HUGE one.
Think about it.
God love you, Joel, one of the reasons I questioned Berg's being a prophet, was that I listened to an accidentally NOT "purged" tape of yours, and you mentioned "questionable verses" that were obviously contrary to Berg doctrine.
It helped me to leave, and to learn Scripture for myself. You're out of the cult, too, Joel, at least technically, but a lot of it's NOT out of you.
Here's the deal: Berg stole most of the "accurate Christian doctrine" he used to bait the hook of his "earthly, sensual and devilish" crap, from C & MA, other "Bapta-costals", and other pre-Darby post-trib rapturists, and others. He plagiarized "Flatlanders"; it was written in the 1800s. He was a massive plagiarizer.
So, your "time of the end" rants are based on some true doctrine, yes, but the crap you constantly throw in is not from God, Joel.
It's just silly, nonsensical crap that makes you important in your own eyes. You didn't originate any part of it that was originally true, you just learned to parrot it as just another absurd cult member; Berg conned you just like he did the rest of us.
Face it. Your first gig was as a dupe for a pedophilic false prophet. That's who you really were. He died; earthly, sensual and devilish, and all his prophecies failed.
His one chance of a large-scale proof for who he claimed to be, in the Philippines, failed miserably--a "prophet" had NOT spoken. And the disloyal (to you) old lowlife had already run you off--he had your teachings purged and burned, and so on. You essentially got "fired".
You'll NEVER get back in his favor; Joel. You are NOT his mouthpiece, any more. He used you, he's dead, and he is in HELL.
Now, as you are rapidly becoming an old man (so am I), you are really becoming pitiful, and by choice!
You are NOT any kind of spokesman for any kind of truth, new revelation, or whatever. You're conning yourself, and no one here believes anything you say.
Carmel probably doesn't either--have you asked her, or are you just a self-important bully!?
It's just you, unable to let go of your past. Face it, we all did!
You're just a "nobody", like the rest of us exers, Joel--relax and enjoy it. God, the real God (NOT the one you think approves of your BS doctrinal fantasies) still loves you.
You don't have to "produce" anything--you cannot get Him to love you any more than He already does! Let go of the false teacher bit! I know it's an addictive little pretend gig, you get a lot of undeserved and fantasized significance for yourself out of it; Joel. We understand.
John 8:31, 32, 38. Get back to the simplicity that's in Christ, Joel. You've seduced yourself, and need to repent.
By definition, you are a spiritual baby; not a giant. Get back to the "first principles" (Hebrews 5 & 6). No one looks up to you any more in regards to Scripture. No one.
MOST of us know, and accept, FAR more than you do, what the Bible ACTUALLY says--face it & get over it; even if that's humbling. It beats humiliation and severity, later.
You'll probably find some obscure reference, or several you habitually string together nonsensically and tell yourself you got the best of me, or out-quoted me, or whatever.
For your own sake, could you please not do that this time, and actually begin your real post-cult recovery? Anything else is a waste of time for all the rest of us, Joel, and a continual waste of your life for you; it's very sad.
Joel, I learned, over 31 years ago, now (I left TF in '74) to think for myself.
I have a really healthy IQ, a great memory (thank God) and have probably read the Bible more times than even you have by now.
Attacking me personally with Bible verses won't, hurt me, help me, convince me of your weird and twisted un-Scriptural BS, or anything.
And I won't enter into a "Scripture Ping Pong"; quoting verses uselessly back and forth--that won't help you.
And, someone needs to tell you; it may as well be me.
It'll just continue to make me feel real sorry for you, and to continue to pray for you, if you just keep tripping on yourself.
You LIKE the imaginary megalomaniacal caricature of a Christian you've turned yourself into; Joel. I get it.
You may never let go.
I hope you do.
You're not a "teacher/prophet" for a vile old man who conned a lot of counterculture kids into believing he was from God--you're still one of his victims if you don't let go of all the BS you've twisted and wrested together to make yourself something you never were.
I am glad you read here--your posts, however, have no value, except to show how really screwed up a person like you can get BECAUSE of the cult, or, better, to encourage others' kindness toward you, and as a very regular prayer reminder for us to pray for you--give it up, old man--do your poor wife the favor, get some peace in your life, and stop refusing to "endure sound doctrine"--you're making your own ears itch for your own self-deceptions, my friend.
Give it up, old man. Give it up.
We should probably not concentrate on "diverse and strange doctrines"--there's really no harm in discussing eschatology.
Personally, I am a non-preterist post-trib/pre-wrath person on this question. But, so what?
Jesus told some folks asking about the timing of things in His life. Referring prophetically to Himself, He said "My time is not yet come".
We should probably focus on what He said next: "Your time is always ready".
People here love you--it's just that no one thinks you're who you're pretending you are. Give it up; please.
In Christ,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)