In Reply to: A few Q's... posted by Pretender on January 31, 2006 at 10:28:24:
Pretender (good name!)--appropriate here):
You said:
"Why do you want to see Joel change? What sort of advantage do you see in Joel coming around to a position that is closer to your views about reality? I don't personally subscribe to much of anything Joel has to say. 99% of the time, I don't even read his posts because they seem like angry rants to me. Nevertheless, I don't think he's going to burn in hell for what he believes and teaches. That's for God to judge, not me. I'm free to live according to my own conscience, and so is Joel. And I've never seen evidence that he's likely to hurt someone else or himself. Why not accept Joel just as he is and enjoy the diversity of the exer boards? That's the great thing about being out of the cult--we don't have to pretend to be something we're not just to keep leadership and other self-appointed caretakers from giving us grief. If Joel wants to pretend he's a great Bible teacher and discerner of prophesy, why challenge him on his beliefs? Maybe I'm pretending to be reasonable and fair-minded, when I'm really intolerant and extremely judgemental of people who think differently than I do. Thank God I can pretend to be something I'm not because I believe that principles are more important than personalities. "
My answers:
1.I would like to see Joel change because I feel a great compassion for him, his wife, his dead son, and all the personal damage we have in common as a result of former membership in TF? Did I REALLY need to answer that for you? Would you ACTUALLY prefer to see him stuck in the delusional cult past, and unable to make the kind of “journey” to which this board is dedicated ? If so, why? Do you think his state of mind is a desirable, and if so, WHY?
2.What DISadvantage are you assuming, and what are you assuming are my “views about reality; conversely, what are yours, and who are you to ask (seriously—I know we’re on a chat board!;-))?
3.Yes, Joel rants. Your post sounds a little like a rant as well, IMO. Where did you get the “burn in Hell” part—I do believe you’re projecting on me for some hidden personal reason—please—what is it? Who said he was actually hurting someone else? Why should his problem be even worse for me to want to go to extreme measures to try to help, as a fellow ex-cultist? Who are you to JUDGE what is some hokey stereotypical PC anti-Christian stereotypical attack on someone else, versus your own effort of the same nature as your accusation? I am free to care and discern, and communicate with those I care about.
4.“Accept[ing] Joel just as he is and enjoy[ing] the diversity of the exer boards” is, I am sorry, frivolous; even meaningless; nearly cruel, in fact, IMO, since I have observed that he is in deep trouble—you are JUDGING what you assume to be my point of view, and you are inaccurate. I am not pretending anything at all, here, I have one leader, the REAL Jesus, and I am not a “self-appointed caretaker”, as you infer. Why would you assume I should not do my best to help, within what I sincerely believe?
5.I’d definitely go with the “Maybe I'm pretending to be reasonable and fair-minded, when I'm really intolerant and extremely judgemental of people who think differently than I do.” self-analysis. Well-done; you're NOT hopelessly superficial.
6.Just what ARE the “principles [which] are more important than personalities” of which you speak? Are you assuming, without knowing me at all, that I have principles to which yours are necessarily superior, and, if so, why?
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)