In Reply to: Re: Abanes' thots about NDEs posted by Observer on March 04, 2006 at 23:47:32:
Thanks. I already know who Abanes is. I subscribe to apologia.org, and he posts there, on their email readers' list which I receive daily, quite often. Most of them are ultra-Calvinist Cessationist; if you didn't know.
They believe that ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit "petered out when Peter petered out"; so-to-speak. So, they do not believe, much less ever discern, that demons ARE "alive and well on planet Earth", to borrow Hal Lindsey's phrase. I like SOME if HIS stuff, too, I am just not a believer in pre-Trib rapture; in fact, I am not a Calvinist at all. A lot of them do do a good job on other topics; though--God bless 'em.
The problem with Abanes' position is that the doctrine is so ironclad, a priori, that no other explanation is ever sought out by its adherents, and their argments ARE demonstrably circular, as are most Calvinist arguments.
So, Cessationists ARE "practical" anti-supernaturalists, and therefore I stand by what I quickly said about Abanes, like some people CALLING themselves Christians never live it in public, have little or no faith in the face of trials, and so on; like the parable of the sower points out is so comonly the case.
So, I have had to conclude that his "believ[ing] firmly inspiritual things" has a VERY narrow focus, but that he is not as "expert" as he may imagine himself to be.
It's one of those "There ARE more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy", as Shakespeare had Hamlet tell his good anti-supernaturalist friend, because of Hamlet's own experiences.
You cannot "be there" to test Anbanes' hypothesis while you yourself are having the experience, and, if you have the experience, anyway, he and people like him try to explain it away for you afterwards, no matter what your sense of reality was--ergo they have a biased logical loop ready for you; regardless.
I had the experiences I said I did, and I CAN back it up with reason and with Scripture, and his position is quite full of holes.
I wrote quickly what I had to say; brevity may have made what I claimed seem glib. It was not.
Try Googling "Spiritual COunterfeit Project" for other post-occult Christians' experiences and testimonies, if you like. It is not really my job to defend what I say at all times.
I try; but, there you are.
Gotta go!
Respectfully,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)