In Reply to: Re: pretty good job of outing them..????? I don't think so myself posted by Another point of view on March 21, 2006 at 08:10:58:
I think that the bottom line ABOUT you is that you are pro-TF.
Or, if you are not, then you are EXACTLY the type of exer Sam Ajemian wrote about in the Epilogue of his new book; a still-deceived, useless and lazy one who can still be conned by the cult's phoney "new openness", and stale old ridiculous and very obvious PR tactics; which are beginning to NOT WORK for the cult on a massive scale! That would include the level at which Stephen operates his own phoney little sub-cult.
Here's the deal:
Everyone but YOU that posts here seems to understand the way TF operates, especially in this country, and anyone who reads Sam's new book will know, if they didn't before, that the monies obtained from REAL Christian ministries, like the many Stephen, Adria and company have conned over the years, and are STILL CONNING, are the major source of income for TF at this time.
That is, except for the TOTALLY obvious TF infiltrators who, laughingly and lamely, try to disguise their cult-member identity, and are so willfully ignorant, uneducated, inept and STUPID that they immediately get laughed off the exer chat boards.
All your ridiculous response does in my case is make me want to make sure I don't forget anything BAD about them when I DO GO to the churches they are conning--it wasn't a bluff!
Google image search doesn’t really work (pictures are too small), but just go to “archive.org”, type in “Heartclub.com”, select “All Media Types”, left-click, and there they are!
The stuff Stephen tried to delete is ARCHIVED ON THE WEB, and not just on archive.org; either. Funny! Hey, Stephen--that's a really big "Aw, sh-t!" for you; huh?
In the '70's, TF ran out of raw new disciples with their new cash, and had to turn to FFing, ESing--selling sex for money or to sucker in fresh meat for their grinder machine (love that cartoon!).
In the 80's and '90s, VDs like AIDS curtailed these money-making abilities, and they stopped selling sex wholesale, and stopped being able to attract large numbers of child molesters as ongoing contributors, much less as "disciples".
Then came busking, clowning/ballooning and outright begging, along with a renewed assault on the gullibility of the churches and governments; especially in America, notwithstanding the cult’s REALLY showing their ass in the Phillipines, by demonstrating, yet again, that “a prophet hath NOT spoken”!
Mo' Letter "litnessing" proceeds went into the crapper--no Mo' dough! “Mo’ dough”—get it? I’ll explain for the intelligence-challenged: “NO MORE---oh, never mind! “Whooosh!” That’s the sound of the explanation going over you’re head!
Mass exodus of SGs and defection of some of even the most gullible FGs caused another mass exodus, of members who STILL didn’t get the obvious, from the States, along with the proliferation of exer sites.
The very FIRST site was done by a lady I HELPED TO JOIN TF, who introduced me to my 1st wife on a litnessing trip from Dallas’ Rock House out to LA and back (whose family HATED even EX-cultists and literally bought her off from the marriage), and I left BECAUSE I wasn't going to start treating women the way Berg always had.
Maria et al decided to become more "friendly" with American churches PURELY for monetary purposes. They had tried it before, and had failed at it, but were desperate enough this time to do EXACTLY what Stephen and his own personal little sub-cult version of TF are NOW DOING! Lying and stealing, and selling overpriced crappy baloons, phoney vids, etc!
The biggest deal is that the Lord Ward case in England established TF's guilt regarding child molestation, and the SG community became activist enough to really become a PR problem worldwide, and boards like this one made it impossible for TF to be believed by ANYONE who wants to know what ALL THOSE PEOPLE associated at ANY level (including Stephen's and Adria's--DUH!) with TF believe, versus the PR lies TF has HISTORICALLY ALWAYS USED.
Who do you think you're dealing with here; some gullible fools? I already said I was a PR man and a top provisioner in Mexico in the nasty little cult, BEFORE the sex sin hit the rank and file members like me--you'd kind of assume I knew what I was talking about regarding how the public is conned; wouldn't you? I used to do it--we "became all things" in a lying dishonest manner because the cult wanted the illegally-gotten MONEY!
Church invasions and infiltrations were ordered by Berg way back in 1979, and that has NOT CHANGED under Zerbitch and company. It didn't work that well BECAUSE they got exposed, and the churches refused to help them--they got a UNIVERSAL "no-confidence vote" by ANY Christians who found out who they had been and CONTINUE to be; despite all the chameleon-change illusions, outright lies, etc.
Two years before he died, Berg wrote, “I don’t think it’s wise to attack the churches to the point that we show a total opposition to them. To show a very antichurch spirit is going to offend . . . good church-goers, like judges & lawyers” (2867:1). The group “may have to depend on [influential church people’s] help one of these days, including right now!” (2867:2).
Berg’s advice was to not “turn the church people against [them], many who otherwise might be friends or friendly” (2867:7). “We’ve got to get out of this spirit of bad, bitter, total condemnation of Christians & churches. It’s better to work with them than against them” (2867:11).
The cult's own publication "FN Encyclopedia: says this:
"Invading" churches in the USA has born more fruit financially than anything else we’ve tried or experienced."
“We got so excited about the potential in the churches that we started contacting other churches in that State & doors opened easily
at every turn.”
“Through ‘invading’ quite a few churches now we’ve been able to raise thousands of dollars for our traveling & landing funds for South America. We have met very sincere & loving supporters who have pledged their help in the future.”
“A church took us in as their sole missionaries to support us monthly on the field.”
“We have also found every church we’ve ‘invaded’ more than willing to allow donations of material & goods to be made to us through the church for tax purposes. We could go on & on about the help that God has raised up through the churches in money & materials as well as future supporters.” (429-30)
“We have invaded the churches to such an extent that we are quite well known everywhere we go.”
“Everything we feed them is straight from the [Berg] Letters, just without the label.”
“We have been fellowshipping quite regularly with several churches, both Protestant & Charismatic Catholic . . . . We made contact with these people through the Full Gospel Businessmen in town.”
“Of course what we share is straight Mo letters, only undercover!”
“This couple has also given us their tithe for the past month instead of giving it to their church!”
“One of the main [contacts] being the President of the Full Gospel businessmen in town who is really a systemite & of course hates the Family, we are really having to be careful.”
They “took Andrew aside one evening & gave him the ‘3rd degree’. He . . . told them we have fellowshipped with many different independent missionary families, different churches, Jesus People houses back in the early 70s, had a coffee house ministry in New York etc., but without giving any names.”
“It would’ve been all over for us & our supporters because of the general attitude of American conservative Christians towards the Family!”
“If these church elders found out our associations, they wouldn’t hesitate to tar & feather us as being ‘religious frauds’ because of their pledged support & the financial support they have already given us. They probably wouldn’t hesitate to turn us into the authorities & try to take the children as well. We feel that many in the Family don’t realize the danger in invading the churches.” (469-70).
That's right--it's better BECAUSE THAT"S HOW the funds get ripped off of the churches and gullible government people, here in the States,. And that is exactly HOW Stephen and Adria, still thoroughgoing religious frauds, are currently doing it here in Houston—let them go public with a disavowal of Berg and Zerby if they are NOT—of course, Berg was a “LITTLE” disavowed after the Ward Judgement in England, so we know they’ll lie in that kind of situation, as well.
As far as I'm concerned, I’d need to to see a point-by-point public disavowal and repentanceregarding ALL of Berg's "doctrine and manner of life", with some jail time if it were proven they’d molested, tortured, or failed to actually educate their kids, with actual tests given to the kids to PROVE their so-called education—I’d probably have to see the diplomas and certificates and actually talk to the school officials concerned, to even BEGIN to believe Stephens BS.
And I’d LOVE for him to try to get physically tough with me, especially in public—“Wooly-boogger” time!
Actually, I'd like to see Stephen's and ADria's minor children and grandchildren taken by CPS and put in homes that are safe for them, while he and Adria face all the legal consequences they have earned themselves.
If their kids' and/or grandkids' testimonies put them in jail, so be it; they are CRIMINALS. That’s publically established beyond any doubt among ANYBODY who knows ANYTHING about the cult, and I’d LOVE to see it established in a court room.
Ironically, regular, well-intentioned church people, mostly just plain old working stiffs like me, the folks Berg hated the worst, eventually became the cult's MAJOR source of income around the time he went to his "reward" (the Great White Throne Judgment). Sweet.
Then came the biggest PR push EVER, even to the point of claiming persecution in the US Congress! And then Faithy's little BS trip to Russia; the child-molesting old whore, where US tax dollars were wasted on a cult's greed, and so very few people were actually helped, which is how they do their "photo-op'illusion EVERY TIME!
But, the Internet-available compendium of Mo' Letters, and the testimony of MANY, MANY exers who testify that TF has NEVER changed, but only changed its TACTICS, are starting to cut into THAT income source, as well. Next will be the video crap the cult sells, through Walmart, on-line book sales, and so on. Good!
Here's what Sam says on page 284 of his book:
"It is very dishonest of the group to try to make it all out to be “persecution of God’s people” when they knew very well that the real issue was that they were guilty of sexually and physically abusing a whole generation of children. The child abuse issue raised against the COG has nothing to do with religious freedom. It is the many crimes the group is responsible for [for which] we are trying to hold them accountable. It’s all about protecting children from harm. There is a religious side to all this, and there is a criminal side, and we should not let the group confuse these two distinct issues."
I couldn't agree more. No one is "religiously free" to pull that kind of CRAP!
Stephen, Adria and their kids, minors and adults still under their sway, to the person, can be assumed to believe that nothing that TF has ever done is wrong, that militantly pursuing "spoiling Egypt" practice, via the "deceivers yet true" doctrine is justified by God himself (even though that PALES in view of their sex sins against CHILDREN), that they are all beyond any law, moral or civil, and that people will always be continually STUPID enough to buy into their parasitic CRAP!
I cannot dignify the STUPIDITY of your suggestion, your cutesy little assininities toward my person don't even register with me, and you are, frankly, exhibiting the kind of GULLIBILTY that is the cult's BREAD AND BUTTER.
Either you are the most gullible fool to ever walk the earth, if you ARE actually an exer ("Here's your sign!"), or we must conclude that you are a current member trying to protect what cannot ethically be protected.
Don't forget--the writings of Berg are PUBLIC and ONLINE, now, as well as the testimonies of abused exers numbering in the hundreds and even THOUSANDS, and real Christians will not support an abusive pedophilic sex cult that ENDLESSLY grifts their sole means of support off of the public at the behest of an obviously false prophet.
It really is that simple.
Zerbitch CANNOT endlessly keep people in her cult; neither in the HUGE numbers she used to imagine, nor in any pitiful so-called "Gideon's Band". TF’s own stats inescapably prove this.
Stephen was so close to the top of the cult that he took “seconds” on Berg’s own wife, whose older self can be found in a picture on the Web, standing topless with OTHER younger FFers! Now a whole “coven” of still-in members live here in Houston, Katy, and so forth; including Berg’s own daughter, Faithy! What do you THINK is going on?
P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute". W.C. Fields said "Never give a sucker an even break". The combining of those sayings has ALWAYS been TF's leaderships' cult-building credo, and it is also still Stephen's and Adria's! DUH!
The trouble is, someone else also said "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can NEVER fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.
That fact, plus the simple marketing and economic realities of this world, will DOOM the cult eventually, in this, the Information Age--"surely riches do make themselves wings"!
Simple INFORMATION will also doom the dishonesty of Stephen and Adria, et al, as well. Demand for their "products and services" will dry up, no matter WHAT "angle" they try to re-invent regarding SUPPLY. Their cheesy and phoney "pretend-religiousness" will become obvious and unpalatable to all!
In the main part of the cult, there are other "better" sources for the prostitution angle than a religious one, their numbers are drying up and their religious whores are less and less attractive over the years, and giving good-hearted people don't want to give to criminals and perverts. Simple.
How 'bout YOU calling them? Or do you already live with them?
OT2 (OldtimerToo)
P.S. I am a “fool for Christ”. Whose fool are you?