In Reply to: Re: I think I see your point posted by Zither on March 29, 2006 at 18:47:05:
You said, "I could pull tons of verses out of the bible and make all kinds of points that are irrational but seem to be or were actually biblically advocated for a given time period."
Do you feel I'm being irrational?
You might be surprised at how much I'm in agreement with almost all the points you mentioned above, yet you lecture me on them as if you were making a point/points to me that I had never considered before. I do find this a little offensive. As for the Israeli laws you referred to, I was the one who pointed them out in some detail to Acheick in a post below, and now you tell me about them. I really do wonder if you're reading my posts.
I am not anti-Muslim. By quoting those suras above I'm quoting actual passages from the Koran that Muslims use around the world today to justify killing/punishing harshly apostates and even Christians who were never Muslims. I'm thinking of the Sudan or the Moluccas or Timor. Both the Moluccas and Timor were/are in moderate Indonesia.
Even moderate, democratic Egypt is seeing a rising tide of violence against Coptics which was not evident before in the many centuries of their peaceful coexistence. Sad to say, many formerly moderate Muslim countries are being swayed to radicalism and to introduction of Islamic law. This is unfortunate and I sympathize greatly with moderate Muslims in countries like these, who dare not raise their voices in disagreement.
About your statement, "I could pull tons of verses out of the bible and make all kinds of points that are irrational but seem to be or were actually biblically advocated for a given time period." I realize you could cite "pluck your eye" from the New Testament, but almost every Christian takes this symbolically and figuratively. Rare is the person who takes it literally. Yet the suras about killing non-believers are taken at face value by millions of Muslims. This is what I'm trying to say.
I appreciate your viewpoints. You seem very well informed on this subject, and while I quite frankly am not as fluent in this subject as you, I also don't appreciate being lectured on the very basics of the issues.
I'm actually becoming tired of this discussion, as I'm a moderate, with sympathies for both Palestinians and Israelis, fully convinced of the desire of many Muslims to be moderate and distance themselves from the more extreme elements of their faith, both in original texts and in how political/religious leaders had warped the text. In voicing observations that Islam desperately needs to come into the 21st century I seem to be viewed as someone with anti-Arab feelings. This is simply not me.
I am glad for this discussion, as I have learned some new things, but I believe I'm going to give this subject a rest for a while.