I just reposted some stuff Joseph pointed out on GeneXers about Tim Peters, and it contains emails/posts to and from Texas Ray and Peters (see http://www.newdaynews.com/crossfire/index.cgi/read/24240) and comments by others a couple of years ago, which are germane to a discussion these last few days on GeneXers.
Anyway, Tim Peters makes a comment to Ray regarding "fighting against The Family" and says:
"Because you do not know me personally, therefore you could have no idea whatsoever about my spiritual journey as a Christian and the current state of my religious convictions and affiliations. I fail to see how it concerns you. Again, I am forced to say that your presumptuous intrusion into my life and charitable labors is unwarranted and distasteful. I'm reminded of what the Apostle Paul said: "One thing have I desired to know among you, Christ Jesus, and Him crucified."
This, though, I will gladly share with you or anyone: when I stand before the Almighty at the end of my life, one & only one thing will be my plea as a mortal man: the blood of Christ has washed my soul and in this alone I can have boldness at the seat of God's mercy.Do you, Texas Ray, embrace this sacred principle that eclipses all others? If so, let me further encourage you to reflect upon a very valuable guideline before seeking to undermine or destroy a man's lifelong work for Jesus Christ & his fellow man, as you have openly declared today in your email that you wish to do to mine: "If this thing is not of God, it will come to naught. If it is of God, no man can stand against it." and if I'm not mistaken, the passage goes on to say, "Beware lest you be found to fight against God."
I find Peters' comments pompous, pretentious and silly, because:
First of all, we exers do not need to know Peters personally to know both his “doctrine and manner of life” (Paul said his was open to all, on purpose. That was a pretty stupid comment on Peters' part, because we know TF’s members’ is exactly the opposite—secretive, phoney and manipulative), and it concerns us all as Christians (those of us who still are, I mean) because of what Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and other Apostles said about false prophets, and so on. That’s not presumptuous, it’s done in obedience to the Lord, and for the protection of others being deceived.
Second, persons obedient to Berg, et al, NEVER desire what Paul said about knowing Christ and Him crucified among ANYBODY else, ESPECIALLY baby Christians and people form whom TF steals money, goods and services with their lies, and hidden sins taught by their non-public doctrines, while they steal away the true sanctification and discipleship God has for those who actually come to Christ around them.
They ONLY want to know David Berg among themselves and others, and HIM glorified above all Scripture and above all things holy and in any way even REMOTELY related to the REAL Jesus Christ.
It’s all ABOUT Berg/Maria, and NOTHING about Christ.
If Berg doctrine is compared to, say, 2 Peter Chapter 2, it is obvious that, when it says there that false teachers “…secretly put forward wrong teachings for your destruction, even turning away from the Lord who gave himself for them; whose destruction will come quickly, and they themselves will be the cause of it…” that that definitely applies to TF, and I say that there ARE no more “sacred principles” still currently embraced by TF or its members, at ANY level.
Anybody who does THAT, wakes up and LEAVES!
Thirdly, the quote last used by Peters, if read in its context in Acts chapter 5, is something that a Pharisee, not a Christian, said to his cronies, that just HAPPENED to work in favor of the Christians.
It is NOT a correct place from which Christian doctrine can ever be taken. Jesus and ALL the Apostles warned quite often that deceivers would abound both in that first century, as well as in ours (we’re straddling two; of course).
Jesus prophesied the relative initial (vs eternal) success of false Christs, false teachers, and FALSE PROPHETS like Berg, who would successfully deceive MANY!
It's estimated that about 35,000 people have been members of TF over the years--that qualifies! We have no guarantee that this particular nasty little cult will ever completely fade away, or that those refusing to leave won't have their judgement waiting for them AFTER their individual deaths.
Here’s Ephesians 5:11 in several translations:
Eph 5:11
(ALT) And stop participating in the unfruitful works of the darkness, but instead, even be exposing [them].
(ASV) and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them;
(BBE) And have no company with the works of the dark, which give no fruit, but make their true quality clear;
(CEV) Don't take part in doing those worthless things that are done in the dark. Instead, show how wrong they are.
(Darby) and do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather also reprove them ,
(DRB) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness: but rather reprove them.
(EMTV) And have no partnership with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
(ESV) Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
(GNB) Have nothing to do with the worthless things that people do, things that belong to the darkness. Instead, bring them out to the light.
(GW) Have nothing to do with the useless works that darkness produces. Instead, expose them for what they are.
(HNV) Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove them.
(KJV+) And2532 have no fellowship4790, 3361 with the3588 unfruitful175 works2041 of darkness,4655 but1161 rather3123 (2532) reprove1651 them.
Finally, I state that TF and ALL of its members, including so-called “FM level tentmakers”, which is what Peters claims to be, are NOT of God, they are merely a fulfillment of what we were warned against in Scripture, and we SHOULD fight against them in every way.
John 8 says that, in order to truly be a disciple, one must CONTInue IN THE Word of God, and TF stopped doing anything even RESEMBLING that over thirty years ago—I was there when it happened, and I then chose Jesus, my wife and child, and my own service to God OVER Berg and his earthly, sensual and devilish falsehoods and filthy acts, and have NEVER regretted it.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)