In Reply to: Re: Ok..I'd call you funny...but I think you have a point posted by susie on August 31, 2006 at 19:13:43:
Susie, if you recall a bit the history of journeys, the various posts, (don't know the percentage I've read) then I'd say, that you were among those really liked, though not a specific believer...I remember Acheick talking nicely about you...OT" too & between
you & Mr.Don it quited down too (I fell like shouting H.... ; ) ) The jist of it: how could there be a consensus on the jouneys board, if you're liked there - that includes also me - on tiop of it, it's not really up to any majority who's banned or not...there are rules ( a German speaking) made by the coordinators 6 so on...
Hate is a very strong feeling...& I must say, that in my life I always checked my heart, whether I hang on to hate...the moment it overcame me in my life, I felt awful...it's such a pain, that I literally felt, I'd get heartdisease, if I wouldn't fight that feeling...forgiving & forgetting...I am saying, I am also prone to it to some degree & let myself be "victim" to it, but I know how awful it is...I don't think that it is a cure for anyone in any situation he finds himself
in & I include the SGAs in it too...I can't immagine, that it helps in the longrun...tu use that word/pic, it helps them to run away from dangerous TF, but then you have to graze somewhere else & or if you run too long, you might get into the desert...I have no idea, how hard it is...that's why I also posted the article : the girl and the beast it's shocking, how many beasts there are...that's what the boulevard press
is e.g. strong about, reporting what monsters man
can become...shocking the other story reader posted, absolutely shocking...then there are the Dutrouxs...there is Thailand & Cambodia all the childporn rings there....there is the history & the Nazi concentration camps & there are concentric circles of heroes so to speak...the resistence groups against Hitler e.g. they were of noble families...had also children themselves &
some were willing to use explosives (S. v. Stauffenberg) others resisted with their words (
brethren Scholl & also D.Bonhoeffer) & were shot/executed likewise).A recent movie about the students Sophie & Hans Scholl belongs to the very very touching moments in my life...
I guess somewhere also Ricky can be placed, but I wouldn't really know where & I can't do the subject justice...it become a "prejudice"...
He did say in his video, that he wanted the whole thing to stop, but was afraid it would go on after
death...that scare remained...I thought that was
remarkable.
Another thing is the following; recently there started quite a heavy debate in Germany about the late confessions of nobelprizewinner Günter Grass, that he wasn't just a mere soldier, but had been drafted at the end of war into the illfamous Waffen-SS...especially since he was such a moralist later...anyway, as they discussed it, it was mentioned, how in training their troups, the
leaders used a lot of hate-propaganda against Jews, this & the other, with the purpose/ idea, to make them really strong...the sick idea, strong hatred makes you strong in combat.
Please include that in your ideas, whether or not hatred is for long a very good companion & counsellor in life...for anyone...
Now comes another itchy subject:Sure some of us did not personally hurt them but we saw them being hurt and did nothing to stop it.
It's a big subject, much discussed & I took part in it... again my opinion: I don't know, what people did in their bedrooms, while I was in TF...there is more abuse than sexual for sure & that wasn't stopped either, because no one in was really very sensitive towards it...what happened in Berg's home I could have imagined, but I haven't seen myself...some publications are revealing what a sick person Berg was & being sick myself in another way, I didn't notice...it takes a healthy doctor to recognise the sick patient, so to speak...so we had a very weak morality & thus didn't protest, when Berg wrote about his phantasies.But that doesn't mean that you necessarily saw all those abuses.Yes, I have been part of the FFing-idea...& got heavily burned...
Wasn't it last year, that the Austian female writer E. Jelinek (forgot the right spelling) got the nobelprize in literature.Some people were upset about it, since she has quite some "vivid",
appalling, sexual concepts in her books...not that
I could judge from reading them, but that was the critique...so is she like that in real life or only in phantasy?
I was much of a yes-sayer when I joined with the age of 20...not always, but much...I also thought, I was very pluralistic...letting others live & trying to live myself the best as possible.
Berg justified lots of the paedophilia just with
some lame quotes, but mostly with his childhood "feelings", telling us, that his nanny did it on him & that was supposed to be good...well, TG, I didn't have that.....so the guy was abused himself.Actually my concept of abuse, legal or otherwise was pretty vague...it wasn't any subject for me...it was not an attraction, a point for me, but I was rather the permissive type, if it didn't harm the involved...may be...who knows...I had no real idea, how much you have to protect children...not only in traffic & from big bullies, but much beyond that...having had no children myself & the whole thing was way beyond my day to day life.I am bnot justifying my poor concepts, I am explaining, describing them...
Life is a lot a bout sin, how to recognise it & being freed of it & I like to add to it, discovering the wonder of forgiveness & in consequence offering others pardon.Big theme...
Last not least I offer the quote, which sheds some light on the major differences between the exers
no matter what generation they are of, I came to see that more & more...Jules wrote:
What many FG exmembers do not seem to understand is that there are three primary stances that annoy us incredibly, which many people seem to be unable to help themselves in taking.
One is the need to justify their position.Perhaps the most insulting of all is the "testimony" of how The Family helped them as a poor lost hippy and brought them to jesus.That their time spent with this group was a wonderfully intense part of their own spiritual journes, and although they left they retain much of what was said and done.One can spot this a mile away by their retention of the terminology and even practices at times of the group.
Another very annoying stance is the desire for absolution. Some of the first generation feel incredibly guilty about what they did in The Family and they seem to hope that by debasing themselves now, they can somehow do penance for what they did.What people did is between them and those they hurt.No one else can grant them forgiveness.
It's difficult to address all that sufficiently, but I try a bit: First of all, what is wrong with feeling guilty, when you recognise, something was heavily wrong in your life, that you missed to live up to really higher & better morals & brushed aside the well-meaning comments/critiques of relatives, friends, the public etc. although I must say, many don't seem to have the clue, what's really good moral standard, as you can conclude from history & present events all over the world.
I for one don't chide people, if they want to vent their feeling of remorse, what's "ugly" about it??
She says, they seem to hope...reading between the lines...yes people debase themselves, cause the opposite, exalting themselves as in Exer woouldn't be right either...so what is the problem...
The was I see it, Jules and other are afraid, that some Eers could try to weasle themselves out of greater responsibility...there is a legal aspect in closure & also the aspect of the soul & psyche...be it for the "mild" offender or the big one...I just see the difference just in the intensity either on the legal & or soulside...
So why not saying: I am glad, that finally the FGs show some remorse, some guilt...of course, it'll never be enough to fix it all...but how could you expect that of some human being:Even if a murderer is sorry that doesn't bring back to life the dead loved one...but that is now the spiritual side, to attempt to fix the pain, stemming from that problem.
The retention of terminology...dear God...if some Exers learned English in TF, then that's sometimes all they can work with, they have no way of judging, whether that term sounds off or inappropiate...on movingon exist posts which clarify which TF-lingo you won't find among "outsiders"...well, how does someone know, unless he lives in a country with English as the major language and observes plenty...& If someone uses exTF-language to make a joke or a point then that is hardly valid either...granted many might still live in yesteryears in their thoughts, but how many come frequently to this website??????
And what was done, I don't retain....I use as much toiletpaper as my ass needs...although I lived in India, that is not an alternative for me yet...I mean those habits among the poor...and 100gr. meat sufficient or not is up to my stomach, the scale & the doctor & whatever else...alcohol-input is less than allowed by TF...then...whatever is now the policy & so on 6 so on.
But, I mean, don't tell me, that when I say please and thank you, it's all due to life with grandpa.
I am a fairly good handyman, but in those books there was hardly much of use for the nowadays
life of a handyman or for what one needs...some I knew befor joining much afterwards & some in TF...although I have a hard time to remember exactly what.
And yes, the Bible in TF happens to be the same or similar to the one I am reading...does that really count for "retaining" practices...I say no...
Should I witness??Many Christians avoid it on the same level of TF - remember, we also neede a living!! - but retaining that wouldn't be contrary to the believesystem of the Bible...
I tell you what, my father was for eight years in
the army during WW 2...he said Hitler was an asshole & he wasted his best years of his youth/life...very true...nevertheless later he met with people having been in war...he talked much about it....& I wondered why....I think it's because it was such an intense time & it was their way of living with that.I saw it as war-romanticism only, but I am not coming to the exers board to indulge in TF-lingo & memories.
I was asked often by my mother, whether I would do the same decisions now, if I had a second chance....of course not...I have now further knowledge & experience....sad & true it came at the cost of suffering endured & caused to e.g. the SGAs.....however, I see life as a huge school and not an exactly super easy one.
Last not least the kernel of the quote I was referring to earlier: Jules & I suppose others have not a clue/idea, what it meant for people searching for "water", an answer...the answer in life...it wasn't TF...but it is for the believers
Jesus & I am not ashamed to say so....
Let's assume I am married to this wonderful woman
& I go on & on to praise her in front of someone else...wouldn't it be odd, if the other - especilly if we were married as "virgins"...didn't have any one else before in life - was voicing his/her contempt....you'd think, hey, that's my life/wife...how dare you?!Jules & others SGAs or FGAs can think what they want...Jesus is dearest to me....a real friend, when others have long left, proclaiming to be friends...she/they can pitty me, feel insulted (she should consult the
dictionary, if that word is really appropriate),
I don't care...that is my life & if i fell like talking about "marriage" it's also up to me not her & others...do you know what I mean??????