To All:
I seriously doubt that Augustine's writings, even that easily "adoptable" quote, could actually be "wrested", to use one of Peter's words, to where it would legitimately mean that ANY verifiable manuscripts could EVER show (although I am sure some here WILL attempt it á la recent pseudo-religious movie about supposed “new” manuscripts) an intent to:
1. --justify all sorts of sex sin, and the lifestyle in which it has become entrenched, including both what Berg, and Zerby have done, as well as a pretended theology/theodicy of some posting here, shown historically, according to the writings of the earliest "early church fathers", to NEVER have been able to do so HONESTLY, to try to make it "universally OK" both to be an open homosexual, AND to pretend to be able to use those same writings to PRETEND to be a Christian, at the same time and in the same way.
2.---to buy into the Politically Correct agenda, insisting on a so-called "tolerance" that not only calls evil "good", and vice versa, but militantly and threateningly makes a claim to a supposed "higher authority" which justifies, NOT ANY religious point of view, not really, but a NEW singular so-called "spiritual" point of view (interestingly including “atheism” according to a very “hopefully PC” recent poster!), condemning ONLY Christianity and “accepting all others, where believers in and followers of the resurrected person and words of Jesus Christ are the ONLY religion which it is legitimate to attack as purveyors of "hate speech", simply because we will NOT call sin anything else but what our God calls it.
I definitely want to welcome people out of the cult, and to the “real world”, and into the world where there exists the freedom to confront those things we individually do not believe in, as well as to perhaps examine things we didn’t understand before, which may have caused some of us to make wrong choices outside of the cult, and its way of thinking (i.e.: NOT thinking!).
Among other things I believe that I am justified in rejecting and NOT believing, I don’t believe in “science badly done”; in the areas of all sorts, in fact, EVERY branch of “true science”; versus myth, wishful thinking and other revisionism, baseless conjecture. , so-called “disciplines-as-empirical-science”, and so on. Just because the government funds something does not make it science; weak hypotheses are still JUST weak hypotheses.
I see Biblical “extant document archaeology” as a “real science”. To pretend to be quoting it legitimately, while at the same time claiming it supports things it obviously NEVER did, is simply academic fraud; without involving any personalities, or attacking or insulting anyone.
I have found it extremely easy to attack the false premises and pretentiousness of “political correctness”, since it easily falls apart all by itself when its first principles are examined with any honesty, at least most of it, and will always question it publicly, when I feel that it is expedient to do so, and might benefit others.
I do so just as I would attack anything written by Berg/Zerby, and presented as “ultimate truth”, and I do reserve the right to do so, while “speaking the truth in love”; as part of my belief.
I believe that we can successfully discuss these topics, without being either insulted or “parented”. That reminds me WAY too much of “Berg-as-Dad”. Puke!
At 53, I “don’t need no Daddy”; either. And, I certainly don’t need my intelligence insulted, nor my relationship with the REAL, versus the CULT, Jesus Christ. That will continue, here, to one degree or another; I am sure, with a LOT of avoidance of answering simple and direct questions. That’s too bad; but sadly predictable.
My hope is that we can discuss ideas, for THEIR VALIDITY, and stop playing silly and boring, as well as very telling, rhetorical games, and making personal attacks (when “cornered” by questions we would just rather not answer), and innuendos.
I hope we are reaching, although very slowly and gradually, the requisite level of care, the one for the other, which I think most of us would like to attain to. I believe that we are approaching it more and more, and that the “Journey” away from TFI can be more and more fully enjoyed, in direct proportion to that continued pursuit.
Caveat: not EVERYTHING we have chosen to believe, post-cult, is better, necessarily, than what we DID believe in the cult. It’s a cruel world out HERE; TOO, in places.
The time for naïvetée is over.
Very sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)