Not intending to "drown you"...(Anti) optifog in life


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Posted by Farmer on January 19, 2012 at 19:59:06

In Reply to: Re: Farmer... posted by CB on January 19, 2012 at 09:10:14:

CB...don't misunderstand me...I always respected you for having left early...& for your very fine/intelligent worded posts ...you and I know, that we have differences...they also won't go away if "I look the other side"...they're kind of/"a bit" immanent

...one thing I learned early, also within TFI/starting to read the entire Bible...things have to square...for God is not the author of confusion 1.Cor. 14:33

...another thing I am learning (being old enough by now)...I don't have to agree with everybody just for the sake of "fake-peacefulness"
(And in TFI...I "hoped" thoughts/ideas would square...until I found out they didn't...that the churches aren't perfect either...about everybody knows that)

...A scripture, 1.Cor. 14:33, I always loved and I know He can make order out of my confusion...ordering my thoughts...regarding doubts/questions I have.... giving me a lasting peace...also I don't accept quick/cheap information/answers...


You said:
My beliefs about what other believers should do or not do are more liberal than yours,

I tried/try to finetune that...I make a difference...Paul sets the example...to differentiate between them which are without and them which are within...next one might want to differentiate between the true brethen and false ones (mostly unknowingly...few should be "spies")...also a theme in the letters... another category also the immature ones, seem to constantly be doing "stuff"...which kind of worried St.Peter and Paul...even John...

You further wrote:
When she was being pushed to do something she didn't want to do, she defended her position...

That is misunderstanding me quite a bit...in the Christmas-issue...I just took a "combative-stance"...because we have yet the freedom to celebrate under the right name...without letting it be diluted, at least within "our quarters"...if the dilution becomes too much...you might as well stop celebrating...you become like the world in argumentation, attitude...everything

My attitude is rather: For now I think like that, have this persuasion/dogma/frame of mind...for such and such reasons...pls. prove me wrong...or kindly obey the "ceasefire"...people are kind enough to stop here...because they figure it's too much work...hassle to probe deeper...an assumption and frankly my approach is, that I try to see the subject from many sides...the supporters side and the opponents...often old/good arguments just have to be mined/dug up...if they kind of got lost/forgotten.

A true believer tries to comply...pleasing the head of the church/body/...the husband...Christ and the Father...even if it doesn't come all "automatic" and easy...as also in my case...I find it tough to obey....but I know there are regular church-visitors in "my" church...who are all very "sheepy"...but aren't really "savvy" about salvation and Christ...though that was the main theme...Christ...in all the sermons I have heard in the 11 years I went there...

Sometimes it got a bit "boring"...because I wanted "more meat"...but Praise God...it's needful for others and refreshing so to speak...for more meat I know at least a good Bible-based-site/board...where I got more meat...themes...than I could chew on

The kingdom of God does not mean eating or drinking this or that, it means righteousness and peace and joy brought by the Holy Spirit

....it was since long one of my very favorite Bible-verses...so...here we go...agreement ; )

and I know...if I don't live some righteousness...I didn't in TFI...having peace and joy...something is wrong with me...my "sensors" tell me...and sometimes they need adjustment...fine-tuning through the Word/Spirit...I suppose

Of course I do notice, that at the common feast-days...common man goes overboard with the feasting,..dwelling on the "flesh"...the belly...the taste-buds...again

...it's obvious...and also became a reproach for many a non-believer...still e.g. Christmas has some "charm"...which nonbelievers are attracted to...even though I'd maintain...it becomes more and more like a nice decorated shell


You say:
You are much more legalistic than I am and tend to respect the customs men devise to honor God more than I do.

In the context with what I said above...no I am not giving any special importance to these customs...but I do think the birth of Christ can be commemorated/celebrated...even if the world doesn't agree on the date...neither theologians...and how?...it's fine to choose the winter solstice IMO...I believe in 6 day creation...the fourth day being 2ooo years ago...one day with God like a thousand with us...meaning the sun...light came to us here for signs visibly ...there is lots in the first chapters ...sometimes called "proto-gospel"


Many people got turned away from reading the Bible...because they think it to be full of contradictions...so the Word becomes less reliable for them...in the long run it becomes a buffet/cafeteria-style of belief-system...you pick what interests you and you can agree with easily...

Problem is, that many things are easy to read and understand...there is no mystery about that portion of the Word, the doctrine...yet we reject it...although it is plain...because it hurts us...our interests...etc.

When I pondered about the right to marry again...btw. I was never legally married...I was in an "affair"...with a mother of 2 nice brown children..who "fled" from her unfaithful/uncaring husband...a doctor in SA...her being a German nurse...in my eyes she was very beautiful, over 6 feet tall...red hair...blue eyes...I thought I had arrived...first I counseled her according to my own wishes and desires...and she appreciated it...but the more time passed...I got more and more doubts about my then analysis of the scriptures in question..the more I read and pondered about it...the clearer it got...when I opened up...& allowed to put my position & desires on the altar.I just wanted to know...wanted to be sure...Finally I broke off the contact after explaining my new stance to her briefly...I would have broken into her old existing...binding marriage...and although that doctor behaved like an a...hole still I wouldn't be justified...you can stay separate and also seek peace and reconciliation...if not possible...you have to stay separate...tough...I was shocked at the bluntness of the Word here and also amazed how few online pages in comparison helped me to see this stance...they are in the minority...I literally checked and read hundreds of websites...besides books on the subject...

In that regard...I maintained here once...the "good ol' catholics" have the "better" morality for this one...though it's kind of scary when you see the exceptions they make...like the Grimaldis in Monaco etc... (but even Luther did that)

Regarding Christmas...I do think, that I understood your point at large...only I wanted to point out/stress, that God's children won't work hand in gloves...or whatever idiom...with the very/conscious enemies of Christ, following their preferred argumentation.

...of course you have to make some allowance for the ignorant...but that can be helped "by Christian education" ; )

I figure...the Word in the end is the best tool of discernment...it's more powerful than any twoedged sword ...even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart...great promise/prospect...Hebrews 4:12

It takes time to study and ponder about it...using the available help and tools and throwing out, ...the interpretation...which leads to confusion...

I see nothing legalistic about it......you first quoted...great peace have they which love thy law...it's OT and it can be applied to NT as well...to the "whole package"

I only started to grow in understanding...when I started to doubt Berg...his calling as a king and prophet..TFI...tithing...the whole works...but I never doubted that Christ is king and the promised saviour...you have to throw old convictions at some time over board...latest at the resurrection...then it's kind of by force...I figure...but I think..we all be surprised

One thing in the movie 2012 is "funny"...when the Buddhist elder pours tea into the cup of the younger monk and he protests..kind of...can't you watch..you're spilling it...the lesson was, to be empty to fill in...well...I learned about that even before joining TFI

...then I got confronted by a fairly known German female disciple in the Berlin tube..with John 14:6 ...it was such a shock and challenge to hear that...my "tolerant"/relativistic stance got shot to pieces...that HE is the only way

...later in TFI, as everybody else, I memorised Luke 14:33 and thought that to be utterly radical...that is in essence even Buddhism summed up in one verse...except..there they become a disciple of Buddha and I knew what/who had worked in my life...the difference!!!

...so Jesus is radical and I think the early disciples were very radical too...the prophets of old as well...at any time lukewarmness crept into the people of God in even in my life...I think we should allow ourselves to be radical (not amounting to any physical violence or any such thing, as we all should know)...against the stuffy old stuff not in line with the Word and reminding others...our brothers and sisters as well...and the world gets a hint a warning here and there of us...My take.


Finally...la fine ; )

May be you know this advertising...I love it when it comes on TV...and I do have problems with foggy lenses in cold weather...but I also meant the "foggy" spiritual moments in life...seeing through a glass darkly...I guess for some things we have a lot of light..other things are a bit controversial/"obscure"...there is also a controversy...what & when is that coming of the perfect in vs 1.Cor 13:10


Optifog Video - The Butcher




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