Re: forgot one thing, too

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Posted by excog on July 18, 2012 at 01:28:48

In Reply to: Re: forgot one thing.. posted by ray on July 16, 2012 at 23:18:19:

Clear enough about the maturation process and how you meant it.

Yet allow me to pick your brain again:

You say the movement is dying. The movement left a TRAIL of dead people - literally.

And in a sense, it is not really 'dying.' Peter and Maria squeezed the lemons as much as they could. They also got to play God - every pathological narcissist needs a good dose of narcissistic supply - a folk saying where I come from says that "to be in power gives more pleasure than...shagging.

Now that there are so many old baby boomers etc. and there have been so many defections and testimonies/books written by survivors (don't forget the Internet and the expansion of communication technology are the kiss of death for a cult that thrives on secrecy and control of information) they decide to take the $ and run.

And the ones who are still calling them Mama and Papa are becoming more mainstream. There are so purported Christian websites online that sell all kinds of Christian materials and they are people you and I used to know.

So the movement is not really dying per se - it is going underground and morphing into more mainstream forms and activities. They did not really ever fess up and choose that - they did not have other self-serving alternatives given the current situation.

Now about the maturation: why should any of the people who come out be protected from the truth and from fessin' up?

Why are you so concerned about that? Do you remember when we were revolutionary for Jesus? We did not believe people "in the System" should be protected from the truth. We used to believe that we should "sock it to them," preach it, follow the Holy Spirit, etc etc. I have pictures of vigils, sackloth and ashes, persistent "witnessing" of all kinds, declaring the so-called 'truth.'

Now I believe we are a lot wiser now, ok? But if the 'truth' had any value THEN, it has even more value today, after the maturation of a few decades.

So why now all this concern about protecting people from the truth? What are you afraid of? That the Holy Spirit won't protect them? That the chips will not eventually follow where they may? that some greater teleology is NOT still at work here anyway? You claim to be a Christian still today. I read your entire book. So what happened to your faith, and how does it work today?

I am being provocative with these questions, I know. I will even throw in GAL 3:3. :-)

But god only knows if all this was truly begun "in the spirit" or if we are more "in the spirit" now when we insist on the importance of fessin' up and not confuse a discussion on what is moral with an attempt at 'forced reeducation' that nobody can really make.

Don't you think part of the maturation for any people coming out of such a 'movement' means also being able engage with and reflect on all these issues? yes, you can do that while you re-build a life. :-)

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