In Reply to: Re: Oh, sorry. Was lost in translation. posted by Jo on April 15, 2008 at 19:08:50:
Well, I am to be blamed really, "Ich habe geschludert"...meaning: I was sloppy ...in my post...too rash pasted together.
The wikipedia article is pretty detailed, but IMHO not really sufficient enough for being in Wiki about such a deep subject.I later realised, that they had included Psalm 51, but don't spell it out ("funny", that in some Tanah the verse isn't like that...anyway)
It's in itself quite a strong argument for many...but I am not qualified here to do the exegesis here, to discern, whether it means, that
some sin happened on the parent's side of David and to what extent the shapening would go and whether you could really use that as generalisation.In the end does that really matter?
The christian--I think-- simply assumes, that no one lives a perfect life from birth to death and the very fact of dieing (even of a baby, theoretically) (Romans 3) means, that these are wages of sin...meaning some sin involved from somewhere.I guess the theological libraries are full about this subject, rationalising/theorising
on how that sin is passed on...
Anyway, I don't see much saintliness in the world
and for me it matters little, when exactly sin enters into people's life...and sin means simply hamartia...missing the goal, if you look up reference-books....that takes a bit of the "stench" the word has among many "wordly" people, sin that is.
This being filled by the Holy Spirit by birth is a pretty unique thing, if you ask me and I tried to give a counter example, a black one...the Rosemary stuff
If you permit, I would see us other mortals somewhere inbetween, as sinners & if that is no
big offence, with the potential right from the beginning, but where you IMO don't need the big rod to drive that out, but rather love,God's Word & no phoney parents, demanding one thing & doing themselves the opposite etc...It says in the first epistle of John, that Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil...that's what only works in our hearts, not really such a big stick on the bottom, just my opinion.
Jo, in spite of my respect for you & all you went through, it's something which is really not within our capacity to judge, whether people are not lost without religion.As people don't see past that veil of death, all they have is probabilities, guesswork.On top of that, religion doesn't really save, but God can and He want's to and to me Christianity is the only religion, which showed me how, through the love & sacrifice of Christ...my debts are payed, which otherwise
would leave me heavily indebted...weighed down.
If there's one thing I learned in the recent months & years (was quite a complainer about many things in my life & life in general)then this , that a sacificing, giving, loving, creative God cannot be blamed....for what I really lack, He fills out & what I shouldn't have he takes & destroys, even if that's quite tough in the beginning...that's really the parental guide there.
So sin is really a lack, missing something....and I don't see that babies are complete either way, as cute as they are.So I don't really think it's fair to make a super splash and a big ado over the thought of original sin...sooner or later it shows up anyway...no big deal for me.