In Reply to: Re: prophecy posted by Disillusioned on August 26, 2008 at 14:23:52:
D., I am truly thankful for providing me with that link...I shall also forward that to a dear friend of mine, who is fluent in Hebrew & translates himself the OT anew, having also been for some time in Israel.I am sure, it will interest him, as much as it has interested me so far.
True, the interpretation direction is nothing new to me, as you also assumed.Please note though, that the link I presented was also a reference to the testimony of a converted Rabbi...sure not all the Rabbis get converted to a belief in Jesus as the Messiah...but that rabbi was also very learned & respected & surely aware of all the possible "mis"interpretations, which he learned in the rabbinic schools.
Also Isiah 53 gets interpreted differently, as the people of Israel's suffering, from what I recall, though that makes little sense to me.
I shall respond/write here, what were my first thoughts & reactions upon reading the article.
I cannot decide for right now, whether an anointed
one would be the best rendering, however I find it strange, that the author, Uri Josef, an unbelieving Jew (in the christian sense), makes continous reference to the anointment of His feet, instead of the anointing from above,IMHO while being baptised physically by a p r o p h e t ,that is John the baptist, but really in the Spirit...this is also referenced to/foretold in Isaiah 61:1
It is quite strange, that Uri J. didn't refer to this verse in his case study, since the verb masah: to smear, anoint appears exactly there & which also Jesus uses/reads, while in the synagogue (Luke 4:17 onwards)...by the way there is also an anointing after death (to death?) of Jacob and Joseph..so why not, I would ask Uri J. ?
But most of all, what the author totally overlooks, is the fact, that Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedec, Gen.14:18, king of Salem...who blesses Abram...see Hebrews 5:6,10 6:20 & 7:1 foretold in Psalm 110: Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek
Verse 4
Of course Uri J. doesn't refer to this, that might pose further difficulties for him
Jesus refers also to this Psalm in Matthew 22:41ff
: While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, what think ye of Christ?whose son is he?they say unto him, the son of David.He saith unto them, how then doth David in the spirit call him Lord....if David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions. (verse 46)
That last verse is pretty "neat" & I bet Uri J. has no answer to that either.I realise, that orthodox Jews shun the verses, the Bible parts which could upset their status quo, "their neat unbelief"...they have figured it all (not) out.
So much for my response reg. Uri J., he didn't understand the real/spiritual lineage of the
Messiah, an anointed one, as he wants it to be read.Plus that's not the only prophecy to regard, the theme was here to have the years figured out until his appearence/fulfillment and there was no
one else in that time, who fitted that part...also all the rest is fulfilled in Him.So why should I have any difficulties to believe in His resurrection?
You speak to my bewilderment about proofs?Can you define, what a proof in the "verifying process"
for supposed historical events constitutes in your opinion?May be I smell some bigotry there...hopefully unfounded.But how do you "prove"
something, when you have not been a personal eyewitness and even the eyewitnesses at that time, the disciples, at first didn't want to believe/accept, that it was Him after having been raised, having risen from the dead.This is for many events in the past a difficulty...supposed
miracles in the dark ages e.g.What do we know precisely about the circumstances of the sudden death of Alexander the Great?We don't know all the circumstances of the life of Buddha either.
Or consider Charles/Carl the Great...some historians!!!!!!!!, think, that that period of history was faked....and you ask for "proofs"??
(Pls see also my "stance" regarding optical delusions...e.g. GenX-board)
What would be then your proof?If you happen to be a real sceptic in the philosophical sense, you wouldn't even believe me, if I told you, that yesterday I saw a real dog...you would first debate with me, what a dog is & whether it was really a dog what I saw & whether it's not all an illusion...you might know the brain in a tank under a mad scientist line /train of thought...
So what could be a proof anyway for a sceptic??
It's all about being not sure all the time...is there a God?...I am not sure & so forth.
Needless to say, I cannot provide a proof to any sceptic or "devout" unbeliever.Those who want all the time more signs/proofs...personal experiences, might have to wait until after death...however, according to the Bible, that might be too late for some joys.Although there is room for all kind of doubting Thomases I wonder, what makes you profit from such stance?I suspect, as it is also the case with me vs. the Charismatics, that a child burning his finger avoids the fire.It's a form of self-protection, understandably.However, although I did suffer from the false ways of TF, I didn't suffer by the fact of having gotten to know Jesus & His love...and that is really the bottom line for me...that convinces me on a personal level, that is my personal proof & really what more would I have to search for historical evidences to support all that believe/love?Actually for a real believer that is not necessary...but here & there I enjoy very much the "signs"/evidences given through Bible prophecy & historical fulfillment...it's a help & pleasure.
In TF we wanted many more signs & miracles...being performed at our disposal & frankly, I think, that was part of the downfall of TF, besides the moral/sexual "deviances"