In Reply to: Re: this cycle?? posted by mir on July 12, 2010 at 20:15:35:
The author's seemed to be Calvinist from what I remembered.What kind of puts me off, is Dan Corner's pretty grim looking...I mean if I let the world see my countenance...I should make sure it's a bit more winsome..."inviting"...that's the kind of "aura" I get from him: wanting to be right...which makes me wonder, whether self-righteousness could be one of his problems...the kind of haughty promotion of his book is not really so convincing (attitude-wise)...on the other hand...I think it's important, to always be looking what others read "into" scripture...to get to know, their way of arguing...it's not excluded, that one learn's from the opponent..
By the way, I don't like too much Dave Hunt's of arguing at times either...too emotional...it just should be based on scripture...Dave Hunt is pretty respected among some brethren-type of believers...getting their newsletters etc.
One thing I beg of you to consider, if you mention Romans 9-11 at all in your answer, then please do regard, what really the brethren (Darby-type) impressed on me so far the most, whereby really getting to know better the Bible...pls!!! do consider always the context in which something is explained, taught...in this case it's physical Israel!!!!!!...or please show me the contrary...except in 11 the plugging in of the believers out of the nations is talked about.So first you have to prove, that Paul wants to generalise that which he used from the life of the patriarchs as applying to everybody..although the logic is kind of general...nevertheless its not the given context???!!
For sure I am not yet a five point Calvinist...see the TULIP-points
really off the beam is limited atonemenent...like I told you before...that is really "naughty" of the Calvinists...sure if I grant/offer someone to clear his debts from his bank-account and he doesn't believe it and doesn't use it...then he's still in debt, but the offer was there.
So you can talk about effectual atonement...alright...but God wants people to be saved...that is totally biblical...I have my problem, how Judas ever had or will have a chance to be saved...kind of a tough case...cause it seems he was "ordained"...foretold in the Psalms etc....but 1.Tim.2:4 is considered as one of the blasts against this Calvinist...super elective...selective...ecclectical thinking.
Also 1.John 2:2 is contradicting , what that teacher said on his website.
They all want to be super biblical...but I really yawn meanwhile at all this...because many leave out scriptures, which don't fit into their doctrine...this is a false, bad way of learning from the Word.It should mold me, my life and thinking and not me molding part of it so it fits my mold.
Perseverance of the real believers...I believe in too
irresistible grace and unconditional election is something so similar...I wonder, why they had to make it 5 points....it's all grace...for sure
Total depravity doesn't mean for me, you can't desire the good, the beautiful, the everlasting...sure, it has to come all from Him, but desiring something is not the same as having it...being all and everybody sinful/sinners, without exception, is not the same as never desiring a better life..cleaner, purer...having no aspirations...the law punished the deed...though it said not to lust after...
Once you sin/trespass, you loose that innocence, that bliss..and you have the remorse about something lost...that's the way I feel/think about it.It can leave with you the desire, to seek that what was lost...paradise lost...so to speak.
I told you, Ephesian 1 is a very weak chapter in supporting predestination...since I woke up to the text, saying we are predestined in HIM...you have not yet replied to it...it's the third time I do mention it...the first time, you said, you didn't get it...then I recently repeated it and now it would be your turn???
Consider the beauty of Romans 8:28 (my confirmation-verse, then with 14 years of age, in the Lutheran church I grew up in...really not knowing anything spiritually then) prothesis is purpose:
prothesis is used in the Septuagint for the showbread (2.Chr.13,11)...a foreshadowing of Christ!!!
So it's all through HIM and to HIM...it needs the gospel the good news to be able to respond...without that, their is no faith, saving faith....that is my take for right now...and I have no problem to think, that God knows, which hearts are fertile (Mt. 13) and which are not...I could think, that he does also some digging, working on it as well
1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world
(hilasterion..also in Romans 3:25)
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved (sozo!!!), and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
As far as the cycle and beyond is concerned, the "funny thing" is the Calvinists and Lutherans really really rely heavily on Augustine as well