In Reply to: i read the link.. posted by ray on June 13, 2004 at 17:55:50:
Hi again, Ray!
Your last sentence in this post attracted my attention:
"and in any case, that we are not exhorted to pronounce damnation ourselves, nor to sit around enjoying the fumes from those we choose to toast. "
Sorry if I assumed that you were accsuing me of that in my original post.
I beleive that Lydia and I are in the position of accepting what Walter Martin, one of the world's foremost cult experts EVER, said:
"If it's true, it ain't new, and if it's new, IT AIN'T TRUE!!!"
That is not intended to insult you, based on your questions. I never said I was the one deciding the fate of others, here.
You are wearing yourself out jumping to conclusions, and did NOT accurately read what Lydia OR I said. Easy, bro'!
Let's at lest posit this:
1. God exists, is all-powerful, and has a character we can discover experientially, and as made promises concerning this.
2. The "mystery of iniquity" began with the "Angelic Fall", of Lucifer and his angels,they have all been judged, and Hell and the Lake of fire are created SPECIFICALLY FOR him and his.
3.Angels were given ACTUAL FREE WILL, but have no offer of redemption and forgiveness after falling, and are now demons dedicated to "steal kill and destroy everything that reflects God's Glory, fairness, and justice.
4. As it says in Isaiah (I'll have to look it up--Ch. 45? 47?), in many cases, God "surely is a God WHo hides Himself", but he IS faithfull to ALL His promises. ONE of them is that sin must be punished, and that is based on the fact that we, as demons WERE, when they were angels, are FREE MORAL AGENTS, and when we make choices, moral choices, there are consequences, whether they seem good or evil to us.
5. If we DO seek to love God, THEN, and only then, we can learn to embrace what He allows, and will KNOW, increasingly, because of what we observe, and because of the tangible sense of His presence He allows, that "ALL things work together for good to those who love God, wh are the called according to His purpose", and that every testing He allows comes with a way to escape it, and if we fail, He is always faithful and just to both forgive and cleanse us throught Christ's blood sacrifice.
6. Romans Chapter 1 states that, even BEFORE we have a born-again experience, e are WITHOUT EXCUSE concerning God's deity and power, and that the road to reprobation and destruction BEGINS with choosing one's own supposed "wisdom" over God's, and then wanting glory for it. Each step down is one of free will choice; regardless.
7. Romans also states that God will judge EVERYONE by the Gospel, and tha hose who "seek honor and immortality" will receive eternal life. And, Lydia and I have also commented on the "exeptional clauses, like babies, the insane, the retarded, and other "innocents", who wll receive God's unlimited mercy, in Heaven.
So, Ray, what is the problem?
Is truth to be assumed to be a perpetual absolute uncertainty? Either Scripture is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, or it's ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
"There are absolutely no absolutes, and I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE that that's true" is patently a logical absurdity.
Yes, God does hide somethings, sometimes, according to His own infinite wisdom.
Some things ARE NOT HIDDEN WHATSOEVER. Over the scope of a person's ENTIRE LIFE, which only God can see, because He "inhabits eternity"; if they consistently reject all of God;s attempts to bring them to salvation, and that IS through Jesus Christ, Scripturre does PLAINLY teach that they "judge [THEMSELVES] unworthy of eternal life.
So, yes, that might happen, THEORETICALLY, to a young person terribly abused by a horrible cult like TF, but Scripture doe smake it clear that, in ACTUALITY (and God is not hypothetical) God DOES give "space to repent", like He did Jezebel and her formerly Christian followers, in Revelation.
But, remember, this hypothetical person YOU constructed in a question, if a REAL person, would have the entirety of their life, however long that was, to choose.
Hebrews 9:27 shows that God only has to judge us AFTER our death; not before. Till then, He lavishly proves his love to us, His great and very essentially GOO jealuosy overanything that hinders our fellowship with, and pure and holy enjoyment of Him. He teaches and trains us, by His TRUE Word, by circumstances, by instruction from others He sends our way.
But we must "be fully persuaded in OUR OWN MINDS". He WILL "give beauty for ashes, and joy for sorrows (and, yeah, Berg tried to dirty that, too, eve abusing that song Jeremy Spemcer wrote).
He IS merciful!
He showed his acts to Moses, but He showed His WAYS to King David (the REAL one, not the blaspheming heretical pervert), adn were are guaranteed a relationship even better than that.
God brought me back from suicide ideation and several attempts--this is hard-won stuff and I live it every day. It's true regardless of ANYONE'S doubts, Ray.
I pray every day for FGAs, SGAs, and will do so for TGAs, as they come along.
Jesus predicted cults. God is STILL SOVEREIGN.
There IS a "way of escape" for ALL who seek it.
Hypothesizing, and making absolute one's own uncertainties, is just like what God warns against in Romans Ch. 1, and it's just mental masturbation, in my opinion.
"Been ther, done that, got the stupid T-shirt."
And, yes, I AM sensitive to the plight of others still afflicted by the evil of TF CULT.
Thanks for the dialogue, Ray!
GBY!
Keep on pluggin'!