In Reply to: Re: Dealing with the "Christian factors" posted by ray on December 13, 2002 at 07:15:08:
Thanks for your comments. I think that what you said, "i find it puzzling why there is so little discussion among exmems who continue to have faith in the God of the bible, and trust that genuiness of their personal conversion experience, as to "where was God in all this?" did we ask for bread and get a stone, or a serpent for a fish?"
I believe in the past this question has been asked a lot until it became an old topic. I have certainly wrestled extensively over this issue. I asked, "Why, if I sincerely wanted to serve God and do good and witness, why did God allow me to get trapped in a cult?" The simple answer is that I was deceived, partly by my own gullibility, partly because there was a deliberte, malicious effort by the cult to hide their controlling agenda until I got in past the point of easily stepping out. I was sold a bad car at an exhorbitant price.
I have found a large measure of peace by accepting blame for what was my fault, and also for accepting that I was fooled/deceived into buying a bill of goods I'd never wanted. And that part wasn't my fault. Beyond that, I just have to say "the jury is out" and I don't know all the whys. All I know is that it DID happen, so rather than ask why exhaustively, I just figure I have to work through my issues, help others if I can and go on from here.
I know some exmembers whose faith has certainly been re-defined by the group. They no longer believe in following prophecies, dreams, and the "leading of the Holy Spirit," the whispers and the still small voice. They say, "Look at what 25 years of following the whispers got me." Obviously, THE most important thing to do is to THINK, to critically question and think through issues. Sothat's where I'm at right now. I do believe in spiritual things but don't put an inordinate stress on them. I believe it's more important to read and understand and try to live my Bible---and use its truth to help me make decisions---than it is to float along like holy Aaron sort of on mental auto-pilot, getting every small decision by the voices and whispers.
You asked, "is lydia right in saying that we simply weren't saved and were serving the devil?"
No. I believe Lydia is mistaken. I will agree there are some people in the Family, perhaps many, who say "Lord, Lord" but don't know God. Their hearts are far from him. They ducked their heads, repeated the words but never truly connected with God. But I believe many people genuinely knew God.
You said, "that would explain our obliviousness to the evil in our midst, but how does it explain the times of answered prayer, or the sense of his guidance at various times, or why we love God to this day? thru it all, wasn't he always there, in the midst, working w/ what he had available, never leaving nor forsaking, in some way mysteriously working in our scrambled lives?"
That, my friend, is a theological quagmire. If I said I had a cookie-cutter answer to that one I'd only be fooling myself, and surely not you. But yes, I believe I knew God thoughout my entire COG experience and there were times he really spoke to me. In fact, it was renewing that relationship with him that finally got me out of the cult.
Why were we oblivious to the evil in the cult? largely it's because we handed our consciences and critical thinking processes to Berg. Only when things happened to begin waking us up out of the stupor and we began to take back what was ours did we begin to see the evil for what it was.
You say, "but the piece of the picture you paint that i wonder about is if the "only way to healing" is to write off 20 years of ones life as a "total waste". personally, i believe there may be a risk of some baby being tossed w/ the bathwater.. some personal lessons and "altars" built on our pilgramage as the patriarchs did, that can be integrated, CAREFULLY to be sure, making sure to wipe all the dogmess off our shoes, but things of value that if nothing else, along w/ all the other stuff of life, can make us a little wiser."
Well, yes, we learned different languages and came out whipped, raped and wiser. But couldn't we have been wiser without having gone through that and having been part of a groupt that systematically engaged in institutionalized abuse---sexual, mental and spiritual? Definitely there are better ways to become wiser. I agree there are portions of that life we can and should redeem, but it's more than wiping a bit of dog poop off our shoes. We were prodigally wallowing with the pigs in the mire. It got on more than our shoes. We need to throw all our garments away, bathe and bathe again to truly come clean. And even then, we will forever be like the German people after WW2, consummed with the collective guilt of what we had been a part of.
You said, "i agree that a brutally honest selfexamination is necessary. we have much to repent of, and be set free from. but i see it as the "principle of the wheat and tares." good and evil coexist side by side."
Yes, but the Family wasn't a wheatfield with some tares in it. Not for most of its history. It was a tarefield with a few poor souls still sowing wheat and trying to convince themselves it was still a wheatfield.
You concluded, "totally black and white thinking doesn't have the equipment to deal in a world of shades, and blends. in fact i believe black and white thinking played a big role in the catastrophe of our lives. such a veiw is messier to be sure,.. but isn't that the way life is since adam... messy?"
Absolutely I agree. Black and white cookie-cutter answers are simplistic. Life is messy and confusing. But I just believe that the Family experience was not a lot of grays. I think the "good" times were simply that we found small joy and refuge in the midst of the pig-sty. Food was sometimes good becuase food can't always be cooked badly. The scenery was great while we sold cult lit in exotic countries. We could joke and laugh at times because Berg somehow never thought to ban it. Some souls were genuinely won but that was a bit of wheat in the tarefields.
We can be thankful for the moments of relief, but overall we must realize that while the Family may not have been a crappy experience for us every waking moment of our involvement with it, it WAS for many, particularly the SGAs. And if we are to be like Christ, we must feel their pain and sorrow as well as our own.