In Reply to: yes maybe too much reading between the lines! posted by lydia on November 20, 2004 at 14:08:01:
Well, Lydia, sometimes I make "judgements" out of my belly, so to speak...I did read, that the visitations were frustrating & I'd been surprised, if they weren't, as were mine with my dear parents.
However, Acheick has some headstart, she was there & knows the TF-philosophy (philosopher:friend of wisdom..ahem wisdom of TF???...a little bit here & there, yes..)
I assume it must be very hard to "let'm go"...
While doing some handymanjob at home, I had yesterday the TV on & after some time layed aside the tools...I treated myself to a 2001 made Indian movie, with German running translations & subtitles for the songs.Indians like arabs are such poets.The movie, set in the highest of possible Indian circles, with a stunning affluency - cause servants & handimen are that much cheaper there & their "houses/palaces" are really extraodinary, as I witnessed in my years there - circled all around:arranged marriage, patrarchial rule in the family. The father something godlike, his wishes/decisions like laws, something to abide by.
Too bad, I didn't see all from the beginning.So the eldest son falls ins love with this daughter of a poor family...no match in the eyes of the father...he already had arraged something else.
When the father gives a talk, he often ends with:
all has been said...there is no contradiction possible...(later in the movie, the mother very sweetly does contradict, the younger son defends his brother quite openly - and gets a "good" smack...)
When the father gets to hear about his oldest son eying this girl of poor background, they have a talk, that is, the father talks all about the duties, sticking with the high norm of the family & the sons obligations. So the father tells his son, how he offended him, what he thought he was doing etc.So he says, what were you thinking, that you could be with her? & the son replies: nothing, I am sorry, nothing...I just fell in love.
He doesn't want to hurt the family, the father & in the end he marries this girl secretely in a Hindu-marriage, which is binding (I had just a day before, what coincidence, made a big google search about Indian marriages, cause I once had an Indian fiancée/wife?...whith whom I had performed in a Sikh gurudwara in Delhi a marriage, but since I am not a convert to Sikhism, I doubt, that it has any legal(religious??!) meaning, plus it didn't get registered later)
So the being sent out without the fathers blessings is such a tearjerk, the whole movie is...but the couple struggles & makes it in London...Anyway, the movie has a happy ending, veeeery touching, where the father asks for forgiveness.I think, there is a wonderful message , the father says, that sometimes the younger generation has to take the lead & the olders have to be corrected.
I've been in several countries in TF & out of TF & I must say, the years in India were definetely very special, probably a reason, why I also stuck with TF, I loved it there in India.
As far as your question is concerned: no, I left the Lutheran church when we returned to Germany some 12 years back, based on a misunderstanding, I wanted to save taxes, but I wouldn't have had to pay for years anyway churchtaxes, since they are linked to your income-taxes & in the beginning, we didn't need to pay, as the income was initially so low. But I don't regret the step.There are things in Luther's life/theology, which are definetely not alright, I take offense...but, that's the lesson may be to draw, that there are so few really outstanding good churchleaders & teachers...the rest seems somewhat mediocre or downright bad.
I had to weigh things after TF, tried various fellowships, but never charismatic, pentacostal ones...I am cured of the negative part of that kind of "spirituality" (the Darbytype brethren would say, that inspiration is from below, well, often that should be the case), by the bad sample of TF & I have no nerve/time right now, to decide, what's so great about those movements, I know what's wrong e.g. & that makes me comfortable in the group I am in right now, they are independent of the main churches, raise all the income through the members, without the need to tithe, the worship songs a far better than TFs, much more about the Lord, many of'm originally in English...they have lots of young people & couples there, lots of kids & they're missionaryminded...little they talk about the endtime...but I can fast that subject
; ) I heard plenty about it....now I educate myself via the internet or books!!!
But I am glad, they're pretty Bible-based where you are...see, in Germany, you have since about a 100 years & more a quite critical, liberal way of interpreting the Bible, critical exegesis...one of the original worst profs was Bultmann.I once prayed while out on the street in Germany with an elderly man, who was confused what to believe because of this Bultmann...after I had talked to him, he joined with me in prayer & it was one of the most beautiful prayers I had with anyone, because the old man had tears of thankfulness in his eyes, it was touching.He said, that he knew now what to believe.
They made a survey of how many of the protestant pastors believe, concerning: virginity of Mary, resurrection of Jesus, ascension, everlasting life etc. the results were not encouraging...so the church got long time ago theologically undermined.
Today they had it on the radio - what we anyhow know- how Santa Claus is replacing Jesus at Christmas.Anyway, it's rather unlikely that Jesus was born either 24/25.12 or 6th of Jan?? for the orthodox, the church did that most likely, using a pagan feast & substituting it - but now there is a long term scheme(also supported by the media) in my eyes, to "drown out" Christ & sad to say, that comes from America too, with lots of movies, which have nothing to do with the Gospelmessage & Natale...(in any event Europe, northern Europe, is
quite more atheistic than dear old America, I agree there with Mr.Don...so they have awful movies nowadays at the christian feastdays, in contrast to older times...very seldom real good ones)
In that sense I wish you & your loved ones a very meaningful inspiring Christmas time/Advent.