In Reply to: Atheism posted by Another atheist on May 04, 2005 at 17:42:49:
Hello, A. A.
I'm not slamming PEOPLE who are atheists.
Atheism itself is a grouping of very weak hypotheses.
Philosophical responses to belief systems one does not believe in may be either "high road", or "low road". The high road takes much more time to express, in its major and minor premises and syllogisms.
The low road is usually, first, a personal attack, leading to an exchange wheree much more figurative heat is generated, rather than "light".
Atheis, like TF beliefs, was something I heartily believed in, in the past. Both fell apart as I matured and sough to be "fully persuaded in my own mind", and actually began to critically what I said, even to myself.
There was also the unmediated presence of God at those times--very precious, very personal, and very revealing of the evil in my own heart.
As to your question, Einstein was a thoroughgoing theist, one of whose quotes was that "God does not play dice with the universe", as well as many other quotes proving my point.
As he got older, he tended to become more universalist, even a bit pantheistic--but THEISM, never atheism, was his central belief.
By the way, he was one of the theists I was referring to in reference to Quantum Theory and Mechanics.
I find that atheists, on the whole, and especially the "professional/public ones" ones consistently portray themselves, fraudulently, as having acheived "scientific" philosophical certainty (see Collosians chapter 2.).
I say that "the Emperor has no clothes!"
I believe youi mean Samuel Clemens; his name wasn't Mark Twain--that was a joking pen name he gave himself referring a boyhood job he had of measuring the depth of river water.
He was not an atheist, he just thought that the churches of his day were mostly filled with hypocrites. He hated hypocrisy, certainly not theism, or Biblical Christianity, itself. He addressed the American Philosophical Society in 1909, and died soon after. His beliefs were quite similar to a lot of on these boards, especially Journeys
Your staed opinion is easily challenged. You said that: "I don't care what belief system a person has incl. atheism, people are subject to the same successes, failures, ethical standards or lack of them regardless of belief." I must contend that a personal very predictably proves their morality. If athiesm were true, no true morality would even be possible, if one were philosophically consistent.
How about the TF belief system, for starters? Do you actually believe your statement holds true here? How so, if so? I'll be fascinated to see you support your contention here.
I did nothing to these people. They aggressivly passed out "anti-tracts", and were very "evangelistic", starting arguments and trying to intimidate other employees.
My journeyman had lived in Okinawa five uears after his Army discharge, and had a Second Degree black belt--a real one, not an American "belt mill" purchased product (just like my first Tae Kwon Do instructor, who was the undefeated American 3rd degree--my journeymqan knew him).
I was a student. They had attacked his leanings towards Bhuddism, and when they threatened him, he calmly explained he could easily take all of them as a group or one by one; wherever they chose. He was very polite, in a nearly formal sense; so was I--that creeped them out, I guess.
They identified me with him. I just stood silently and respectfully when he spoke. This guy was a real "Sensei". Real martial arts has its own distinct culture.
He was for all-American "Freedom of religion". They were for mockery, oppression, and the active threatening of Christians. Surely this does not aurprise you; not really? Get serious.
My journeyman went in to a building to open a circuit of 880 Volts in preparation for a repair.
I had on rubber boots, but was standing in water in a ditch, and it only takes a pinhole to kill you. One of them said "So-and-so said the circuit is open. Pull out the fuse".
I reached for it, and something FORCEFULLY threw my hand backward away from the fuse, keepimg me from touching the fuse. I tested the circuit and it was closed, and would have electrocuted me. I experienced what I believe was angelic intervention.
Believe what you will. God intervened.
With my experiences, I am not at thet mercy of anyone's arguments to the contrary.
And, you can probably tell that I can easily discuss the inadequacies of atheism, when that is appropriate.
I prefer "light" to mere heat.
Oh, yeah. The day I left the job, to return to college, my journeyman and I agreed to allow the "threatening atheists" to take me on, one by one, in the parking lot, where my journeyman promised to officiate, with the agreement that unfair tactics against me would be punished by him immediately. That stopped their bluster.
I never said I didn't believe in self-defense. I just didn't have anything to prove. I still don't.
My journeyman said that he learned the same thing living in the Okinawan dojo for five years.
And, society has moved on to "post modernism", and no longer regards the intellectually out-of-style atheists as "the smartest guys in the room".
I say, "Duh!"