In Reply to: Why everyone can be a prophet but no more prophets for all posted by Posted for Judy on February 10, 2006 at 22:15:38:
Judy:
My heart really went out to you as I read your post. And, I believe I understand the title to the post that you used, “Why everyone can be a prophet but no more prophets for all”; I take it to mean that Biblically, as it says in 1 John 2:27, individual Christians have no need that anyone IN PARTICULAR teach them, but as they grow and seek God, His anointing will teach them, just like in John 8. And what you quoted from Jeremiah was fulfilled as it says in He 8:6-13, and so on.
I am so glad you’ve discovered that, as well.
That’s a precious truth that I as a TF exer had to learn the hard way, as most posters here did.
I also agree with everything you said about Berg, Zerby and them about their self-elevation and self-exaltation through the abuse of authority and false prophecy, and about how people who did and still do follow them are abdicating their God-given rights, by not thinking for themselves and therefore not being able to make informed decisions, thereby giving over the control of their minds and spirits to evil people.
I congratulate you and praise God for what has happened in your life since you realized these things and acted on them! Way to go, Sis!
I do want to add a little warning, however. You also quoted Mike Bickle of the Kansas City Fellowship as having said, about God speaking audibly to Moses on Mt Sinai: “That is the last time that God spoke in an audible voice to the people as a whole. From then on he used prophets and priests as mediators between Himself and the chosen people. But it was clearly God's purpose from the beginning for the children of Israel to function eventually as a kingdom of priests, and kingdom in which every person had the direct access to God in hearing His voice.”.
Judy, that’s not true, Biblically. It does sound good, and even reasonable, especially in comparison to TF doctrine; no doubt. A quick search through the Gospels and the Epistles will show it to be untrue; however. God DID speak audibly after Moses. See Mt 3:17 & 17:5, Mk 1:11, 9:7, Lk 3:32 & 9:35, Jn 12:28-30, ac 9:4, 10:13, 11:9, 22:7 & 26:14, 1Pe 1:17.
Here’s the deal; Judy. Very soon after I left TF, I started fellowshipping at a church here in Houston, Tx, where another exer was already going. His mother wrote a book called “The Snare of the Fowler”, about how he escaped TF. So, I’ve been there pretty much regularly since the late ‘70s. It was called “Church in the City” then, and had parted in good stnding from the Assemblies of God as a charismatic fellowship made up mostly of students from the University of Houston where they’d had an outreach called Chi Alpha.
The main pastors started CITC, which just wasn’t comfortable with many of the traditional emphases the AG denomination held as a little too important.
CITC grew over the years, as a very mature ministry with regards to gifts of the Spirit, and so on—no weird stuff—lots of overseas missions work, home churches, close fellowship and worship, with no “shepherding” or other overbearing religious crap. I’d certainly had enough of that!
Anyway, back in the ‘80s and ‘90s, the Vineyard movement was starting to grow nationally, and as CITC encountered them, we were the only other church they actually asked to join, because of the balance of the same emphases, which were all Scripturally and behaviorally sound.
And, CITC’s 2nd pastor (the 1st pastor went to Germany to start churches there), a guy named Bert Wagoner, ended up as the National head of the Vineyard Association USA.
A church that asked to join the Vineyard, but became doctrinally really weird and was asked to leave was the Kansas City Felowship, pastored by Mike Bickle, who went way off the deep end as you described, and became a false teacher.
What happened at the KCF, or Kansas City Fellowship, was that there were some doctrinal and behavioral excesses that had to be dealt with, one of them being the “creeping in” (like ac 20: 28-30) of something called “Dominion” theology, which promised the restoration of the 5-fold ministry, as in Eph 4, and then the problem you mentioned starting up all over again: the elevation of certain individuals to a Apostle or super-prophet status and teaching fale doctrine.
I have a huge list of lots and lots of false doctrine stuff on my computer I have accumulated over the years (I don’t major on it, but I try to not be “ignorant of Satan’s devices” as I once was, and as you were too; right?).
Here is JUST ONE URL for you to read from: http://www.intotruth.org/kcp/kcp-wineskins.html.
Here’s my suggestion: Go to the URL. Left-click on “Edit” at the top of your browser, and then left-click on “Find (on this page)”. In “Find what” type "Bickle”, until it says “Finished searching the document”—it will be SEVERAL clicks. The go back and read from the first click for "Bickle".
What you read there should undoubtedly prove to you that Mike Bickle is a false teacher of an old heresy. My Dad’s family, back in Arkansas, dealt with it back in the ‘30s and ‘40s, before they all went over to the Assemblies of God, which took a public stand against “Dominion Theology” and the “Manifest Sons of God “ doctrine.
It actually elevates the individual to the level of a literal god; no kidding. Plus that a "small but spiritually elite" group (sound familiar?) will basically get a superior revelation to anything alse taught over the last 2,000 years (Hmmm?), become "Joel's Army" (Oh, yeah--heard THAT one before!) adn literally take over the Earth. No Rapture, no millennium, just God-like "christians" ruling over lost mankind--really.
I strongly suggest getting as far away as possible from the influences of the Kansas City Fellowship and the heresy they teach—they don’t teach sex sin/torture of children/Gospel-mooching & lying/etc., but, even so, the doctrine is still extremely destructive, and starts little cults that make "all-or-nothing demands, similar to TF.
Bickle evidently had already gone off the deep end, by showing his ignorance of God speaking in an audible voice, post-Moses. Early sign: making ridiculous claims about what the Bible says, when it soen't say! Berg began with OT Messianic prophecies applied to himself!
I could share with you VOLUMES of the other untruths and heresies that KCF has taught over the years—it is not a sound ministry; I am afraid.
If you like you may email me privately.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)