Posted by on July 14, 2011 at 18:56:59
In Reply to: Re: I'm a fan of lady ga-ga posted by long time exer on July 14, 2011 at 15:50:14:
lte:
I guess that, at nearly 59, I’ve outgrown Gaga-like concerts, in my own taste for music as well as music-cum-bizarre pseudo-entertainment—best classification I can give her. I’m fairly eclectic. I started playing classical piano at 4 ½ (blew some fingers off at 12 and stopped. I got a bizarre eye-full and belly-full of the rock and roll scene by working at a week-long festival back in 1971, right before I joined TF, although I enjoyed some of the music after my TF exit—mostly classical rock and roll. But my tastes grew, and I began to enjoy old blues, rhythm and blues, jazz, some fusion, and I even eventually renewed my love for classical and romantic era music. When I went back to school at 46, I had some electives to choose from, and took one class in music appreciation for classical/romantic, and one for the history of American jazz and the blues—both were academically very rigorous—concert and local gig attendance was mandatory, and close analysis of the music was requisite—very enjoyable at several levels.
Actually, it DOES seem like you ARE discounting, even mocking (maybe unintentionally) my belief. I very rarely hear phrases like “..in danger of hellfire for the beliefs you hold..”. That seems a little crude and religiously/self-righteously arrogant and presumptuous to me. I have, as I said, been directly involved in what I am writing about, and make no apologies for either my direct experiences or my beliefs; as I’ve said. It’s just one more tiresome stereotypical “pseudo-cool” insult aimed at Christians—I’m fairly used to it by now; I guess. I never hear similar insults aimed at other belief systems—curious.
Ever hit your thumb with a hammer, and cry out, “Bhudda! Mohammed! Krishna! Or Moses!?” I didn’t think so.
I do applaud free thinking. Not everyone was fully persuaded in his or her own mind (Romans 14:5) to enter the cult in a genuine search for spiritual truth—FFing made sure of that. And there were undoubtedly early joiner who weren’t then highly socially esteemed “truth-seeking hippies”, but people who found a corrupt organization which offered them strong personal micro-managing control over others, as well as opportunistic sex, even with children.
That would hardly justify an out-of-hand rejection of genuine Christianity simply because of having experienced the strange fruit of false christianity (2Cor 11—“another jesus, another spirit… another Gospel”). Being philosophically honest would require recognizing and admitting that, unless one just prefers being willfully ignorant, and in a spiritual/psychological denial.
And TF definitely quit being Christian, even at a “surface level about Christianity”. They lost that as the true nature of top leadership revealed their true colors, about 2-3 years into the cult venture. I left in July of ’74, but kept close tabs on the cult, met and got to know Debra a little, met other exers, etc. Actually, those exiting usually cited discovering true Christianity as their primary reason for leaving.
So why do you put “Christianity” in quotation marks?
I also applaud the over 30,000 who have left, and I am very happy for them—I’m very glad for you.
To use the phrase “you faith”, and “works for you”, and “for you” (all in one sentence, really doesn’t, “for me”, strengthen you argument for your position. Yes, Jesus made true Christianity exclusivist. He also conquered death (an exclusivist act)—no one else has. I also know Him personally, in a very personal and intimate way, for over 37 years. Do you like pointing out that it is my faith and not yours—that seems you primary objective. I think I do get it, at long last.
The “other venues didn’t just fail, “for me”, they became undeniably and obviously actually demonic. While I was into Yoga, and this skinny little punk Bible-thumper rebuked one out of me, it REALLY got my previously “pantheistic” attention! I didn’t like it at ALL at the time, but it did make me curious enough (and a little frightened) to actually ask Jesus who He REALLY was—I had Him somewhere on a list of “Ascended Yoga Master”, in my mind, because that is where the gurus I was tentatively following at the time told me I should put Him—He answered and showed them to all be lying fools!!
I have found that spiritual certainty IS available. I promise!
What if the REAL Jesus IS “…the way, the truth and the life..”, and that “..no one comes to the Father but by Him..” What else do you imagine there is? I went over ALL of that ground; HUNDREDS of times—can you really afford to be wrong? What are your thoughts on that?
Yes, I am making my own journey. And, like you, within the AMAZING amount of personal decision God has given me, I am very much my own man (I am currently in the middle of an intense disagreement with one of the pastors where I attend/fellowship, because he is currently committing an egregious, and very harmful, social inequity—I won’t go into it). I completely think for myself, in regards to life, politics and religion; believe me. I also just spent the better part of a week trying to keep a friend of mine out of another damaging/controlling CULT—I know my way around them, better than most! I have seen that if someone will not stand for something, they will usually fall for anything (my stint in TF proved that!). We certainly have our TF experience in common.
My first wife joined the cult without a born-again experience of any kind, and now is a very embittered and complaining person who posts on the Internet as an atheist. The Bible says that “the fool...says in his heart there is no God”. Her parents threatened to disown her if she didn’t eventually divorce this “loser ex-cult member”—they absolutely hated me—mostly because I didn’t convert to their particular brand of Southern Baptist, immediately upon exiting TF. She did divorce me—then they used up all the money they had threatened her with to pay medical expenses till way into their late 90s—no inheritance (kind of poetic).
Her revenge was to teach my only son to become a similarly bitter atheist, as well, who thinks the ONLY intelligent people in any room are ONLY ATHEISTS. I asked him if he understood genetics—that he’s smart because I am smart (Wechsler Scales WAIS-R IQ score: upper ½ of the national upper 1 percent—mine, not his). He’s 35, and no one can tell him anything. I really MOURN his belief system, AND the fact that he uses it to mock, despise and reject his own father—so I’ve heard all of the BS about atheism.
I also like jazz, blues, bluegrass, alternative, golden oldies and cutting edge (some of it). My daughter absolutely loves music, and is an accomplished cellist (plus 5 other classical instruments she teaches). She’s done world tours with some college-EMO bands, played at Lollapalooza (2004), on a TV show, and even has movie credits. She just got a Masters in California. Some TV stars are her cello students (from Brothers and Sisters). I keep up with a LOT of music.
Don’t worry, no on CAN “discount” my belief—it includes daily experience throughout my entire adult life, with dependable consistency—it’s solid as a rock; really. I only want people to know God as He really is—extremely kind and loving, and wise beyond compare. I am like a beggar who found an endless supply of delicious food, and just wants to point others to it; that’s all.
I heard someone tell the story about the Pharisees bringing to Jesus the woman caught in adultery. Jesus wrote on the ground while he was listening to their accusations. Then, the devil came up, looked over Jesus’ shoulder, as He wrote in the dust, and asked, “Yes…but is it ART?”
So much for art. I like the Dutch Masters the best, for painting, as well as most Impressionist art like Manet’s and Monet’s. My baby sister does sculpture—world class—some of her clients were James A. Michener, and Willie Nelson—they personally sat for her for over 12 hours each. Her style is hyper-realistic (every hair on Willie’s beard, etc.). I like that kind of sculpture.
Later!
Sincerely,
OT2