Posted by ray on February 18, 2013 at 22:14:41
In Reply to: Re: nature of knowing God, walking by faith posted by fh on February 18, 2013 at 16:42:24:
hi agn. tx 4 ur more relaxed tone. just a few pts and then i'll be going. (literally...off on a trip 2morrow).
about luther, i was wrong to use 'transubstantiation" as his doctrine is of "the real presence" (often referred to as consubstantiation) but much closer to catholic teaching than most protestant churches today. i was surprised to learn of it when we were befriended by some "schwenkfelders" in PA,who were descendants of the group who were driven out of germany by luther for disagreeing w/ him over the subject (they were more in line w/ most protestants.) just an interesting aside we were surprised to learn about. his comments on the anabaptists were worse, and he was mellow compared to calvin, who ruled geneva when he had his son in law executed for heresy over what would today have been more of a "denominational distinctive". o well.
about mysticism, obviously there are many flavors, and some do seem linked to darkness. but certainly the bible is full of God's people experiencing trances, prophetic dreams, audible voices, visions (sometimes which sound something like astral travel) angelic visitations (sometimes preceeded by periods of fasting) talking bushes, donkeys, seers peering thru to other dimensions etc. hard to not classify these somewhere in the realm of mysticism, imo.
your examples of christian mysticism are very selective, and fringe. the tradition in biblical times, early church (particularly eastern church), thru even some reformed traditions into contemporary times in rc/prot/orthodox/pentacostal is strong.
but i'm not pushing it. i've only very limited personal experience of this sort of thing. but the growth of contemplative prayer across all streams of the church today is worth noting.
btw... in my opinion i think you misread the intention behind p/m's use of "director". i think they see themselves as "spiritual and adminstrative directors of tfi" in more of the admin sense as well as giving spiritual advice in a general way to those who still maintain the link. i have gotten to know several spiritual directors (both in fact evangelical protestants) and their approach to ministry is quite different from p/m's , or for that matter what you descibe... tho perhaps some overlap in spiritual disciplines, counseling practices etc. for what that is worth..
but... enuf said. may God guide us both on our journeys.