Home Children of God Publications Grumblers Get Out!--Repent!--Or Perish in the System!--Dad's Blast After Hearing About Zack Attack!

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GRUMBLERS GET OUT!--Repent!--Or Perish in the System!DO 27168/91
--Dad's Blast after Hearing about Zack Attack!

REQUIRED READING for All JETTs, Teens, EAs & Adults!

1. The best thing in the World for those grumblers is a good strong dose of the System!--To have them go out & see what it's really like! They'll come running home with their tails between their legs begging to get back in! (Maria: If they can ever get home.) The Lord forgives backsliders. Remember the Prodigal Son? If they really want to come back home, He'll help them. But they'll have to get that hankering for the World washed out of their system & not go around grumbling to everybody, voicing the Devil's lies!

2. I've always been strong on that! Get rid of a murmurer & a grumbler & get rid of'm quick! Let'm get out there & see what it's really like! That's what the Lord did with those grumbling, murmuring Jews! (Maria: Yes, they weren't satisfied with their lot in life so He gave them something else, something to cry about!) They were always murmuring, grumbling & pulling other people down. (See Exo.14:11-12; 16:2; 17:3, etc.)

3. Murmurers & grumblers are never satisfied unless they take somebody else with them. They're the Devil's own preachers, his own propagandists! They're always trying to pull down others. And they're very clever sometimes! I'll tell you, whenever I heard about them, I couldn't get rid of them fast enough! I'd tell'm, "You want to go? Then for God's sake, go! We'll help you go!" They usually had relatives who were glad to help them get out of the Family. Let'm go back to live with their parents or grandparents & then they'll really get a taste of it! They'll come back begging to get in! A lot of them have--like the Prodigal Son!

4. The Lord said, "I am married to the backslider!"--Jer.3:14. He still loves'm, but He gives'm a good thrashing! He really gives them a good taste of it, chastising! "Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, & scourgeth every son whom He receiveth."--Heb.12:6. I'll tell you, the scourging of the System is exactly what they need if they think that life in the System is better. Let'm go! We can't get rid of them fast enough! What are we doing fiddling around with this complainer? (Maria: Yes, I wonder.--I guess because he's so talented & he was supposed to be one of our bellwethers, & we've invested so much in him.) Oh, baloney! If he's griping & grumbling around about how the System is better, let him go & get a good taste of it! That'll cure him! (Maria: He's been complaining about things for months, even while he's been a JETT Shepherd!) Good night! That's a terrible example & a terrible influence!

5. I'd say get rid of him now, right now! You couldn't get rid of him quick enough! Nobody's so needed that they can't be kicked out! Backsliders usually have certain talents & attractions, they're the Devil's own bait! (Maria: A lot of the Teens look up to him because he's so talented & he's older, 24 now.)

6. My God! To think they'd let him get away with saying things like that, that a System boss would be better than his Family Shepherds! Who was letting him get away with all this, anyhow? (Maria: It looks like everybody has let him get away with it for years!) Well, I say fire him now! Excommunicate him right now! Send him back to the System right now! That's always been my position with people like that, murmurers, complainers, grumblers. They're always fiddling around behind your back trying to attract others & pull'm down with'm!--Always complaining, always griping, always murmuring, always bellyaching, always criticising & trying to undermine faith & confidence in leadership! God help us! What is the matter with us that we can't see those things & get rid of them! I've never put up with that kind of thing! How come?!

7. Our leaders at TSC always used to come to me about problem cases & say, "We've had some very long talks with him, we've spent hours with him, we prayed with him, & he still hasn't changed!" I said, "There's one thing you haven't done that you need to do & that's kick'm out! Then he'll learn his needed lessons!"

8. (Maria: He was in the Victor Program for quite a few months & he did better, so then he graduated & became a JETT Shepherd, but his complaints & grumblings are continuing.) Of all things, to make him a leader of our Teens! That's the worst kind of an example to have! I want you to send some kind of word to them today, to kick him out! Get rid of him!--Straight from Dad! I never put up with a grumbler & a backslider & a murmurer, & neither does God!

9. (Maria: He doesn't like the way I do things either. He quotes some of the older Letters & says, "Dad says this & Dad says that." He doesn't like the way hardly anybody does things! He's always quoting MO Letters to people, but mostly all out of context.) That's exactly what so many murmurers do. A lot of them are smart enough--the Devil makes them smart enough--that they don't dare criticise top leadership, it's always their underleaders. But he's getting awful near the top when he's criticising you!

10. Now! Get rid of him! God damn him to the System until he gets fed up! (Maria: He's got a wife whom he may have corrupted too. Maybe she was already corrupted, but if so, he's made her worse.) Then she can go with him. Let them both get a real good dose of the System & get fed up!--And if that doesn't cure them, nothing will!

11. I heard something about his problems once before, but I didn't realise it was that bad. I am amazed that our leaders have put up with him! Now you just tell them from me to get rid of him now, today! Tell him to wire or phone his folks to send him the money to go home. (Maria: His folks are in the Family & they don't have the money.) Well, he can phone his grandparents, & if they won't do it, just kick him out anyhow & let him see what mercy the System has, how much the System will do for him! (Maria: He can just get a System job & live on his own. He's 24 years old! He can play a guitar, he can work in a studio, he can do lots of things to try to support himself.) Right! He thinks the System is so wonderful, let him find out!

12. Now do it! I'm sick & fed up with hearing about that guy, & I mean it! He's a spoiled little brat, that's his problem! (Maria: You put it really nicely, ha!--Better than I did in my whole Letter! And come to think of it, as hot as my Letter was, beside what you have to say, it seems like I was still very merciful & gentle!--Ha!) Well, I'm not!--Not with grumblers! Not with critics of leadership & subverters! They're great big time-wasters! They're always big time-wasters. They want to voice their grumblings & their criticisms & their gripes & their bellyaches to everybody, especially to weaker brethren.

Prodigals & Just Plain Deserters!

13. Now kick him out! If his grandparents won't take him, kick him out right there & see what the System will do with him! Let him get a good taste of the mercy of the System! He doesn't deserve our mercy, let him have a sample of the Devil's mercy. I'll tell you, if they belong in this Family, they'll eventually come running back, screaming for God's mercy & saying they're sorry! (Maria: Or else they're so proud & self-righteous they never get to the point where they can bring themselves to come back no matter how bad off they've gotten.)

14. Yes, there are two kinds of deserters: Those who are prodigals & return to us, & just plain deserters who were never really with us in spirit, so they backslide & they'll never return to us. Paul has a lot to say about those guys, & he says very clearly to get rid of them! (See Rom.16:17; 2Th.3:6; 1Tim:6:3-5.) If they repent & want to come home, all right; but if not, for God's sake, & the Family's sake, get rid of them! Even for their own sake get rid of them!

15. Now I don't want to hear about this guy any more! Tell him to get his hell out of the Family! Get the hell out of here, & now! I don't want to hear about him any more unless he repents & comes home like the Prodigal Son! The Prodigal Son was repentant, he confessed, & he said he was not even worthy to be called a son any more, "Make me as one of thy hired servants!"--Luk.15:19. That's what he needs to do! And I mean it! Now! Send him the word today!

16. Just sock it to him & let him have the System, & let him see what they'll do for him! I can't stand those murmurers! I never could! I always kicked them out immediately! Sometimes I'd give them their bus fare to the nearest town, or take'm down to the highway if they wanted to hitchhike.

Tony's Youth Is No Excuse!

17. (Maria: He wants to have a Teen Revolution & have the Teens run things, because he doesn't like how the adults supposedly squelch the Teens & how they supervise them too closely.) What he means is he wants to run things! He's lifted up in pride.

18. I can't get rid of those guys who sow discord fast enough! What the hell is the matter with our people that they would put up with a guy like that for so long? It didn't take me five minutes to get rid of'm! Our leaders at the Ranch would deal with them for hours & days, & sometimes it ran into weeks. When I finally heard about it I'd say, "You just send them to me! It won't take me five minutes to take care of them!"--And I'd send'm down the road!

19. (Maria: I guess it's because he's one of our younger generation. But he's not really a Teen any more.) Just because he's the younger generation is no excuse. He has absolutely no excuses! He knows better. The Devil is using him, it's just the Devil in him!--So let him go to the Devil & let's see how much the Devil will do for him!--And NOW! I don't want to hear about him any more! I want him kicked out now, today, period!

Repent & Get the Vic!--Or Get Out!

20. (Maria: We heard that he just had prayer for deliverance, so I wonder if he has changed?) Unless he has repented, confessed & shown fruits meet for repentance, unless he's had a phenomenal, miraculous, supernatural change in attitude with no more gripin' & grumblin' & bellyachin' around & trying to subvert the Teens, unless it has happened already & they see evidence of it, a dramatic, drastic change, out he goes, now!

21. They need to face him & say, "What about it? Are you going to get up & confess before the whole crowd? You've been rebuked time & again." Now he needs to get up & confess before the whole church & before all the Teens, before everybody, & repent & do "works meet for repentance" (Mat.3:8), & do it quick, right now! Two or three witnesses need to go to him for the last time & tell him what I said!--Mat.18:16. And if he doesn't really repent & confess & have a tremendous, dramatic, drastic, supernatural, miraculous change of heart & attitude & mind & tongue, then kick him out! That's the worst part about those people, their tongues, because they cause so many others to stumble!

22. He needs to get up & confess with strong crying & tears & a real show of repentance & confession & humbling [DELETED] with strong crying & tears & ask everybody to forgive him & say he's never going to do it again, & show it, or out he goes, right now! That's the word with the bark on it & the growl & the bite from Dad! Is that clear? (Maria: Yes, Sir!) All right, now do it! (Maria: We'd better include his wife in on that, because she's pretty guilty too.) And if his wife is like him, let her follow after him & go with him.

[DELETED]

24. Now let's quit stalling around & fiddling around about it! I'm sick & tired of hearing about it, I want him out! Either that, or completely transformed, right now, the next session! Let the elders deal with him, but not by the hour, having hour-long prayers & blah blah, just tell him off! Give him the ultimatum! Tell him, "Tonight, at our next meeting, you're going to get up & weep & pray & cry for mercy [DELETED] confess that you're all wrong right in front of all the Teenagers & everybody, & beg for mercy, & show a tremendous, complete transformation of heart!--Either that, or pack your bags & go, & let's see how wonderful the System will be to you!"

25. Did you hear me? (Maria: Yes, Sir.) Right, I mean it! Now! Today! Tonight, if possible! No longer than tomorrow! Now! It's never too early to get rid of that kind of guy, those bellyachers, criticisers & holier-than-thou hypocrites! (Maria: Yes, he's really self-righteous.) I have never put up with those people! I kicked'm out quick at the Ranch & on the Road & wherever! I just kicked'm out!--And if their wives didn't want to go with them, we let'm stay. Remember that guy? (Maria: Ralph? [EDITED: "Tyrus"]) Yes, he was on the Road with us. He thought himself to be quite a prophet & was very critical, so I just told him off! I said, "You get out of here & go!--And if your wife doesn't want to go with you, we'll keep her & protect her--from you!" And he went & I don't know that he ever came back. (Maria: No, he didn't, but she's still with us, God bless her!)

26. There are some people who just haven't got it, let's face it! Even though you think they've got everything, if they haven't got real faith & love & devotion to the Lord & the Family & absolute loyalty, then they haven't got it! Kick'm out!--The Military does! They give them a "dishonourable discharge." Give him a dishonourable discharge, excommunication!--Not a word from the Family any more. If they've spoken against the Family, they don't deserve to be in the Family.

27. Now do it!--And quit bothering me about that guy! I don't ever want to hear about him again unless he comes back a changed man! Do you hear me? (Maria: Yes. I'd like you to read my Letter to him, though.) Fine, I'll read it any time, today or tomorrow.

28. I remember when Big Josh & Ho & somebody else came to me about some griper we had there at the camp. They said, "We've spent hours, we've spent days, we've been working on him for weeks now!" I said, "You have?--And he's that bad? Just tell him to come to me & I'll take care of him!" And I had a little word of prayer with him to see if he wanted to repent & confess. But when I found out he was of the same mind still--a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still--I just was very sweet & nice & I said, "We'll take you down to the highway. We'll even give you the bus fare to Fort Worth, where your folks can send you the money to go home." I didn't want'm hanging around the local situation & griping to all the neighbours & farmers & local people. I didn't even want them down there hitchhiking for that matter, I'd rather give'm the bus fare & get'm out of there, somewhere they wouldn't do us so much harm!

29. (Maria: It seems like dear Zack Attack has been attacking everybody but the Devil!) Yes, exactly. Well, the Lord's going to attack him now! That's it, period! Get him out! I'm attacking! God's attacking! God couldn't stand those murmurers! He finally left the whole God-damned caboodle of Jewish parents of the young people out there to die, their bones bleaching on the desert, & never let them into the Promised Land! Only their young people were allowed to go into the Promised Land, those who were faithful, loyal & trusting, who admired & followed the leaders & obeyed.

30. (Maria: It looks like some of our young people are actually old bottles & they don't have the faith or the love or the loyalty that our older ones do.) Then get rid of them! They think they like the System? Let'm go to the System! Let'm go home to the System!--To parents or grandparents or relatives or somebody! They like System bosses better? Let'm go out & get a System boss & a System job & see what happens!

Told to Go by MO!

31. Zack, I attack you for the Lord's sake & the Family's sake! Get the hell out of here!--And you can't get out fast enough to suit me! At least you can brag that you were thrown out by MO himself! You finally reached the top! You wanted attention? You got it! You got my attention!

32. I used to tell our leaders, "Listen, by the time they get bad enough to have to bring them to me, that's the end, the limit, out they go! No more! If you've dealt with them & prayed with them & everything else & they haven't confessed & repented & changed, then I'm the last stop! Out they go!" I don't give a damn how talented he is, how handsome he is or what a leader he is. [DELETED] He's just there to subvert our poor kids. Now get him out, now!

The Prodigal Son Truly Repented!

33. When the Prodigal Son wanted to leave the family, his father gave him money to go, & he left. And he wasted it all on riotous living until he was down in the muck of the pig pen, willing to eat the husks that the swine did eat.--Until he finally came to his senses & said, "What am I doing here? Even my father's servants have it better than I have! I will rise & go to my father & tell him that I am no more worthy to be called a son"--that was certainly true--"just make me as one of your hired servants!" But because he was genuinely, truly repentant, confessed & changed, the father loved him & had a party for him & was glad to have him back. (See Luk.15:11-32.)

34. Only the older son griped about it. And the father said to the older son, "This my son has come back & lives! Why should you gripe about it? Everything I have is yours now! He has no more, he's had his share of the inheritance." The younger brother was now going to have to work like a hired servant for his brother. That's about the only job you can give those backsliders if they come back, until they prove to you that they really are changed.

Troublemakers Love Attention!

35. So get rid of him! Kick him out! Shake the dust of your feet off on him!--Mark 6:11. He's getting away with murder!--Staying in the Family this long, as long as you've known he has those problems! What the hell is wrong with those leaders, anyway? I've never done that! I've always gotten rid of them & I've told them in Letter after Letter to get rid of them quickly, instantly! You can't get rid of them fast enough before they subvert too many more people. Now do it!

36. Those [DELETED] backsliders, they love all the attention they can get! Oh man, from our earliest schools in Florida I found that out! There was one girl who was going around talking against us behind our backs to everybody! And boy, as soon as I found it out, I threw her out--& one girlfriend that went with her--so fast it made her head swim! She phoned her folks & got the money & went home & we never saw her again, thank God! I'll tell you, you can't get rid of them soon enough, & if they don't change, you can be thankful that you never see'm again!

37. My God! I don't care how talented they are, I don't care what they can do, I don't care how much money they can make [DELETED] if they're not loyal to the Family, & are grumbling & criticising & bellyaching about the Family!

System Slavedrivers!

38. The idea of saying that he'd be better off under a System boss out in the System! Just let him wait & see! There's no System boss out in the System that you only work eight hours a day for. You live 24 hours a day for that System boss & under his iron rule! The Jews found that out down in Egypt. They griped & grumbled, & then they really got it! And then they went out, they were even released, think of it, under Moses, God's man, & they kept on griping & grumbling! God put up with it for 40 years of their wanderings in the wilderness, after chastising them again & again & again, & finally He just told their kids they could go in along with Caleb & Joshua, & sent the parents all out in the desert to die, & die they did!--Num.14:26-35.

"Oh How He Lied!" (Song)

39. His situation sort of reminds me of a funny old song, which I'll paraphrase for you. (Sings:)

"He said that he loved us,
But oh how he lied,
Oh how he lied, oh how he lied!
He said that he loved us,
But oh how he lied,
Oh, how he lied!

"She thought that he loved her, (--"She" & "her" in this case is the Family)
But oh how he lied,
Oh how he lied, oh how he lied!
She thought that he loved her,
But oh how he lied,
Oh, how he lied!

"He kept on lying & one day he died,
One day he died, one day he died!
He kept on his lying, & one day he died,
One day he died!

"So he went down to hm-hm (in those days it was naughty to say "Hell")
And oh how he fried!
Oh how he fried, oh how he fried!
He went down to hm-hm, & oh how he fried,
Oh, how he fried!

"She went up to Heaven & oh how she flied,
Oh how she flied, oh how she flied!
She went up to Heaven & flip-flop she flied,
Flip-flop she flied!"

40. So much for liars!--Unrepentant, unconfessed liars! And he'll lie even more as soon as you kick him out, & then it will all come out! And if they can't run to relatives, they'll run to the System. They always run to your enemies, & they will always give them a ready & willing ear for all their criticism & complaints.

41. Boy, I'll tell you, I was never known for being a pushover! From the beginning of the Family I was tough, & that's what got us where we are! And that's what got us rid of a lot of those people who would have been nothing but a drag & a hindrance & troublemakers. I saw through them in no time at all! They were the Devil's own minions* trying to hang around just to cause trouble! (*minions = willing servants or followers) They were the big fat birds that didn't want to get out of the nest. "I don't want to leave the nest"--that's their bird song--"I just want to stay & make trouble!"

The Sympathisers Can Go Too!

42. All right, is that clear? (Maria: Yes, & we have to make it clear to the Teens that when people get to this point where we're ready to kick'm out, it isn't just once or twice that they've been a problem, it's been over a long long period where they've had reprimand after reprimand, correction after correction. We haven't been unfair to them; to the contrary, they've had chance after chance after chance!--And finally the Lord just gives up on them. He gets to the end of His rope & sees that there's no more hope for them, except for the System. He says, "My Spirit will not always strive with Man!"--Gen.6:3.)

43. I'll tell you what I did with people who sympathised with them & complained about what we did with them, I told them, "You can go with'm! If you have more faith in them than you have in us, if you think they're right & we're wrong, you go with'm!" And in the process we got rid of several different troublemakers who had been listening to them, sympathising & spreading their poison. Kick'm out & you'll soon find who's loyal! If anybody complains about it, kick them out too & let'm go with'm!

44. That's it, Honey, that's enough. What more can I say? (Maria: We got a really good MO Letter out of it!) It's nothing new, I've done it for years. We always had some leaders who were trying to hang on to them, "Oh, but they're such a leader, they have such talent, they've got this & that & we just hate to put'm out for fear some of their admirers will be stumbled & blah blah." I said, "Let'm stumble!--Let'm stumble after'm! If they believe them more than they do us & are more loyal to them than us, let'm go! Let'm all go!" That's what dear Gideon did, he wasn't worried about numbers. He was only worried about having too many people--too many people like that! (See Jud.7:1-7.)

Get'm Delivered or Kick'm Out!

45. (Maria: We're pretty merciful in the Family, but where we have to draw the line is with complainers & troublemakers.) Yes, to put up with problems like that, who persist & don't change, that's too merciful! The quicker you get rid of them, the better! We don't need people like that. We don't need numbers like that. It's better to get rid of them. Either get'm delivered--& obviously delivered, really supernaturally, miraculously changed with the fruits of repentance & tested to be sure they stay delivered--or kick'm out!

46. Being in the Family is not a right, it's a privilege, & people who don't deserve it don't have the right to stay! Just cancel their privilege & kick'm out, excommunicate them!--Especially people who are bad influences. And a rotten apple is always a bad, rotting influence on others. You leave them long enough & they'll have the whole barrel rotten! So you can't possibly kick them out too soon after they've had adequate time to change & have refused.

47. What the hell is wrong with our leaders that they're so gutless, so namby-pamby, such sissy pushovers, that they let people like that push them around & fool them & cause them trouble, endless trouble! My God, I would have gotten rid of that guy years ago! (Maria: Yes, thank You Lord.)

48. Well, he's had problems, but he's got his biggest problem now! He's going to learn what the World's mercy, the Devil's mercy, is like!--The System that he wants to join where he thinks he'll be better off. He'll soon find out, & that's the best way for that kind of guy to learn, including his wife. Lord have mercy on the poor child! But if they don't change, their kids will grow up just like them, or worse. Look at Deb & her kids! [DELETED]

49. I'll tell you, they reap what they sow, they pay!--Unless they repent, like the Prodigal Son, & confess, & come running back home begging to be let in!--Acknowledging they don't even deserve to be, but that they're just willing to be a servant. He doesn't even deserve to be a servant or put down to Babe's status, all he needs is excommunication for all the trouble he's caused, & is still causing, & probably will yet cause unless he repents! He'll probably go straight to our enemies, that's what they usually do.

Better to Have Troublemakers on the Outside!

50. I'll never forget when I told Ho to kick out that guy who had run the Atlanta Colony, David Hoyt. Talk about talented, he'd been a leader of the Jesus People, & when he found us, he joined us with all of his people, & he was tickled pink! But then, people like that sometimes think they deserve to run everything, so when they got to London & Ho began publishing there, he wanted to be the big cheese, he wanted to be the boss, the editor. And since Ho apparently knew him pretty well & wouldn't let him--although he was willing to have him work under him--David Hoyt got mad & walked off straight into the hands of our enemies & became an enemy & a backslider & a thorn in the flesh!--Which is what he wanted to be, since he couldn't be what he wanted to be while in the Family! (See ML#168, "Baalzebub--Lord of the Flies!")

51. That's one way these backsliders can be what they want to be. They want to hurt what they couldn't control & rule, so they try to give us all kinds of trouble. But I've gotten used to it, I just expect it. When we kick people out, I expect them to try to cause trouble. But we're always better off getting them out than having them right in our midst causing trouble in the Family. I'd lots rather have them an enemy outside the Family trying to cause us trouble, than allowing them to stay inside & putting up with them & giving us trouble inside. They're much more dangerous inside the Family. They always try to split & defeat & draw people away, & they have a better opportunity to do that inside. They can cause more trouble inside than outside. They're a greater security threat on the inside than on the outside. No matter how much they join our enemies & fight against us, they can't do as much damage outside as inside.

Call Their Bluff!

52. (Maria: Sometimes people cause all kinds of trouble & they think they're some kind of exception to the rules because of their talents. Then when they get correction & don't like it, they threaten to leave & go home.) Call their bluff! That's what often straightens some of them out. When they threaten to leave & cause trouble, blah blah, let'm! They'll be less trouble out of the Family than in!

Demotion!--A Test of Humility!

53. All right, please, let's put a period there! That's the end of it! We're going to excommunicate him if he doesn't confess & repent with strong crying & tears & "bring forth fruits meet for repentance" & show a vast change of heart & become a different creature!--In which case we'd forgive him, if he shows he really means it & is different! But the least we can do for him is put him to work at some bottom job washing dishes or cleaning toilets. That's what we used to do with some of those people, we demoted them to try to make them humble. We'd give them the most menial jobs to see if they were humble, put'm down.

54. Take away all of his responsible jobs & positions & make him a flunky--mopping floors & cleaning toilets! Then even the kids will understand how bad he is, how demoted he is. And if he can take that, & if he confesses all of his faults & all of the lies he's told & all of the criticisms he's made & all the rest, then you know he's really sorry & repentant. You've got to get it all out of him or else he'll still be a problem. And if you can't, then fire him from everything! (Maria: All this applies to his wife too?) Yes, if she follows him.

Our Leaders Have Been Too Soft & Lenient!

55. (Maria: The funny thing about it is these people seem to complain against their leaders, that they're too hard on them & they're too strict on them, & they say, "If Dad knew about this, he wouldn't agree with this!" And then you come in & lower the boom & right away they get real convinced that their leaders weren't so strict on'm after all & their leaders were pretty gentle, probably too gentle!) Exactly, too lenient! If I'd heard about it sooner, they'd have found out who's lenient!

56. Okay, can we please be done with that now? (Maria: Yes. This is great, Honey!) I wash my hands of it, that's it! In the Early Church the discipline was so stringent, so drastic, that if they even told a lie, they'd drop dead! (Acts 5.) Most of his criticism of leadership has probably been lies, only he probably thought they were true. (Maria: He has one of the best places of service in the Family & has had the most privileges & the most time & attention of almost any of our young people!) Well, he's had it! That's the correct way of putting it, he has had it & it's finished! Finito! Period!

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58. If he wants to know what I'm like, now he'll know! And any of the kids who complain about it, they can go with him as far as I'm concerned. I can't understand our leadership putting up with him so long! What the hell is wrong with our leadership that they're getting so soft that they can't exert some stern discipline, & that they tolerate that sort of thing & put up with it for so long instead of letting them know right off the bat that they won't take it!

59. Our leaders must be getting awful soft, afraid to exert a little discipline on those complainers & troublemakers for fear it will offend or lose them. The quicker they offend them & lose them in cases like this longstanding problem, the better! (Maria: I think in the past many of our leaders were very very dictatorial, very merciless & very hard, too hard on people. So in trying to be more loving & merciful, some of them may have gone to the opposite extreme. They've got to try & strike more of a right balance.)

60. Amen, Lord, You deal with him accordingly! He deserves it. If he's really still got it, bring him around. I know You don't put up with such foolishness. You're a good loving Father, but You're a tough one! If Your sons get out of line, You sock it to'm! So that's what we're doing, Lord.--For Your sake & his sake & Thy Work's sake. Now You sock it to him! Show him that he never had it so good, & show him what the System is like & how they're going to treat him.--In Jesus' name, amen.

POW-WOW QUESTIONS FOR "GRUMBLERS GET OUT!"

Please note that the questions that offer a number of answers are not intended to be multiple choice questions. Instead, the points listed are all correct answers, which have been provided for your reflection & discussion.

1) Tony's (Zack Attack's) most serious problem & the one that has made the Lord & Grandpa so angry is his murmuring, complaining & criticising. This Letter from Grandpa to Tony is a final ultimatum. If he wants to remain in the Family, he is required to have a complete & lasting change in his life, & he has to have it immediately after hearing the counsel from Grandpa.
Tony has been a chronic murmurer, which means he has murmured & complained a lot & spread his gripes around to a lot of people! He has been counselled repeatedly by many very good Shepherds, & for months & months & even years he has been given many opportunities to learn his needed lessons, change & forsake his murmurs--but in spite of all that help & attention, he still continued with his murmuring & complaining. He did not show any signs of improvement, so the time came when his problem could not be tolerated any longer. Now he has to get the victory or get out!
Please discuss why chronic murmurers who refuse to change & get the victory & cease their murmuring are so dangerous & destructive to the Lord's Work.
a) Murmurers always drag others down with them. This means that when murmurers are discontent, looking back & wanting to backslide, before they go the Enemy uses them to do as much damage as possible & have other people backslide with them.
b) They sow discord among the brethren, which means they sow conflict, contention & disagreement. They disrupt the unity of the Body. This is an abomination to God! (See Pro.6:16-19.)
c) They subvert the brethren, which means they corrupt or pollute others (with their gripes, grumblings & lies)!
d) Murmurers are big time-wasters.
e) Murmurers & grumblers voice their grumblings & their criticisms & their gripes & their bellyaches to everybody, especially to weaker brethren.
f) They undermine faith & confidence in leadership through their murmurs & complaints.
g) Murmurers are used as a mouthpiece of the Enemy to spread Satan's propaganda; the Enemy's goal is to bring division, & through division, the destruction of God's Work.

2) Have you ever been around a person who had a serious problem with murmuring a lot? What effect did it have on you?--On your Home? Please discuss.

3) We probably all have occasional unguarded moments when we're out of the victory & we slip & murmur or complain a little. For example, if you're not feeling well, or you're tired & a little grumpy, or you're having a particularly rough day, you might unwittingly (unintentionally) let your guard down & murmur or complain a bit. If this happens, please understand that you're not going to get a big rebuke or get excommunicated, especially if you see the error of your ways & snap out of it & ask those people who heard you murmur or complain to forgive you.
If you slip & murmur or complain very rarely, then you're not what is considered a chronic (perpetual, continual) murmurer. But even if you don't have a serious problem with murmuring or you're not a chronic murmurer, you should still take this lesson to heart & strive to cease any murmuring & break any bad habit you have of letting your guard down & not controlling your tongue.
Please discuss how reading Grandpa's counsel to Tony has caused you to want to be more militant against the serious sin of murmuring!
What are some of the things you can do to break the habit of murmuring & complaining & make sure you don't get off the track & become a chronic murmurer?
a) Pray & ask the Lord to give you a little check to help you be aware of when you murmur or complain. Sometimes we don't realise when we say things that are negative & murmury--but the Lord can give us checks if we ask Him to & if we really want to do better.
b) Seek the help of others to safeguard you. Ask your friends, parents, Shepherds, Teamworkers, work companions, etc., to point it out to you if & when you murmur or complain. (And ask the Lord to help you to be receptive when they do point it out to you.)
c) Do a Word study on the subject of praise & thanksgiving versus murmuring. (See "Thankfulness" in the Word Basics Book.)
d) Memorise appropriate verses & quotes.
e) Pray before speaking.
f) Fight to make progress in breaking bad habits!
g) Play the "Count Your Blessings Game" as Mama Maria instructs us in her Letter of Counsel to Juan, Abi & Dust. (See ML #2621:52-59, GN 437.) This really helps to get rid of any complaining, murmuring attitudes.

4) If you have a serious problem with murmuring--if you've been talked to about it repeatedly or if you find that you murmur frequently--what other steps do you think you might need to take to gain a solid & lasting victory?
a) Recognise the seriousness of your problem.
b) Check your heart to see if there are other sins that open the door to murmuring, such as pride, self-righteousness, a critical spirit, or having too high an opinion about yourself.
c) Confess your sins & ask for united prayer of deliverance, & for the Lord's help to break the habit!
d) Go militantly on the attack.
e) Stay in the fear of the Lord.
f) Reread this Letter when necessary & possibly memorise key quotes from it. Do an extensive Word Study on the subject of "Thankfulness versus Murmuring" from the Pubdex & the Cat Book.

5) Why is backsliding & getting a good strong dose of the System sometimes the best thing to help cure chronic murmurers who won't get the victory any other way?
a) It helps them learn their needed lessons--the hard way!
b) It helps them see how horrible the System really is!
c) It teaches them to appreciate the many blessings they once had in the Family.
d) It helps them to get rid of their hankering (desire) for the World.
e) It sometimes causes them to come running back, begging for mercy, like the Prodigal Son!

6) Grandpa says if someone doesn't have a real attitude of faith & love & devotion (dedication) to the Lord & the Family, & absolute loyalty, then they haven't got what it takes to be in this Family. Now this doesn't mean that we have to be perfect, which is impossible, but our attitude should be one of faith, love, dedication & loyalty, & we should be striving with all our hearts to obey the Lord. Please discuss the importance of each of the qualities listed above & give examples of how these qualities can be manifested in our day-to-day lives.

7) Discuss why this ultimatum from Grandpa to Tony is not unfair. When discussing your reasons, please consider Tony's age, his history in the Family, the amount of training & counselling he's received, & the following verse: "My Spirit will not always strive with (struggle with or deal with) Man!"--Gen.6:3. (--Tony's the one who's unfair!--D.)

8) Have you ever been tempted to sympathise with anyone who received strong correction?--Or do you feel you are sympathising with Tony or even excusing his sins & wrongdoing? Please discuss why this attitude isn't healthy, & how entertaining such thoughts can affect you negatively. See how Tony himself looks at his correction in FSM 197, page 18, where he says, "One thing I really want to emphasise is that there was nothing harsh about these Letters at all. Completely to the contrary, I've been shown an incredible amount of undeserved mercy, in that I'm not being excommunicated right now."

9) Please discuss why it's better to have troublemakers outside of the Family rather than inside.
An example of how this principle is true: There have been situations in the past in some of our Teen Homes or Schools where rotten apple Teens or JETTs were allowed to stay in the Home & cause a lot of trouble for quite a long time. They usually spread a lot of lies, murmurs, complaints, worldliness & bad influences amongst their peers. Then, when they were finally confronted, they left & went back to the System. But even after they were gone, it took quite a long time to "clean up the mess" that they had left behind in the way of lies & doubts & System ideas that they had sown in the hearts & minds of other Teens & JETTs. So the trouble they caused when inside the Home was much worse & more far-reaching than any trouble they might have caused once they were out of the Home & in the System.
Have you ever been in a situation where bad apples were corrupting the ranks before they left? If so, please discuss the bad fruit it bore in the Home or in your personal life.
If you feel that you or anyone else in your present situation is guilty of these same offences--spreading lies, murmurs, complaints, worldliness & is a bad influence amongst your JETT or Teen group--please tell your Shepherds about it on your next OHR. Please be specific about names & situations.

10) This ultimatum from Grandpa is Tony's last chance to repent & keep any place in the Family. What conditions does Grandpa require Tony to fulfil if he wants to be able to stay in the Family?
a) Get up & confess before his whole Home (all the adults & Teens). Confess all his faults, all the lies he told, all his criticisms, & that he's been wrong about it all.
b) Ask everyone to forgive him.
c) Be truly sorry & repent. (Repent means revolute or change!)
d) Show fruits meet for repentance--a tremendous, dramatic, drastic, supernatural, miraculous change of heart & attitude & mind & tongue with no more murmuring!
e) Be willing to be humbled, do the menial jobs, & have all his responsible jobs & positions taken away. (--Amen!--D.)

11) Grandpa instructs Tony's Shepherds to take away all his responsibility. He says, "Make him a flunky--mopping floors & cleaning toilets! Then even the kids will understand how bad he is, how demoted he is." Does that mean that whenever you clean a toilet or mop a floor, that you are being demoted? No, of course not! If your heart is right & you are a whole-hearted, 110% Family Member who is giving your all for Jesus, you'll willingly & happily do all chores for Jesus & the Family--because you are here to please Jesus, not for personal glory. Even Grandpa says he likes to clean toilets--& in "Glamour or Glory" he reminds us that no matter what we do, if we do it for Jesus, we can have a glory in it!
Can you see the difference between your mopping floors & cleaning toilets, & Tony losing his positions as JETT Shepherd, inspirationalist, & Teen witnessing team leader to only do jobs like mopping floors & cleaning toilets? Let's see what some of the differences are:
a) Most Family Members willingly do simple jobs like mopping floors or cleaning toilets because they love Jesus & are willing to do anything to please Him. They see those jobs as chores that need to be done, which are just as important as our other jobs, & which all together contribute to our Family's outreach to the World. (See "What Did You Do to Win a Soul Today?") But Tony hasn't looked at it that way. Because of his high opinion of himself & the fact that he's prided himself in the positions he's held or the jobs he's had that he considers to be "more important," it will be humbling for him to do what he considers "lowly" tasks.
b) Most adults who mop floors or clean toilets also have other responsibilities, such as teaching, witnessing, leading devotions or meetings, organising Home business, etc. But in Tony's case, he has been demoted, & he will only be doing simple chores. He will no longer have any other responsibilities or be in any position of seniority or leadership at all. This will be a big change for him, because in the Home he's presently living in, he's accustomed to having responsibilities & being used in different ministries, so this demotion will naturally be very humbling for him.
c) When people see Tony mopping floors or cleaning toilets instead of being a JETT Shepherd or playing the guitar in inspiration or leading Teen witnessing excursions, etc., it will serve as a reminder to all that he is being punished & humiliated because of his wrongdoing. Everyone will know that in Tony's case, rather than doing those simple jobs just because they need to get done, he will be doing them as a test to prove that he really wants to be in the Family.--For the right reasons, to serve the Lord, & not just to exalt himself & his own abilities & talents. Everyone will know that he is going through a time of humility training before he will be trusted to do other jobs that require greater responsibility & maturity.

12) Grandpa also corrects the leaders who were shepherding Tony, because they put up with Tony too long & gave him too much time & attention, when they should have laid down the law with him & given him an ultimatum earlier. Grandpa says, "What the hell is wrong with our leaders that they're so gutless, so namby-pamby, such sissy pushovers, that they let people like that push them around & fool them & cause them trouble, endless trouble!"
When Grandpa corrects the leaders for missing the mark in this area, that is not to say that Grandpa is mad about & disappointed in everything about the leaders or their entire way of shepherding their flocks. In this Letter, he is zeroing in on this one area which seems to be a weakness in the leadership, & the reason he corrects them is so they can all learn & improve in this area. Throughout the Letter there are several possible reasons given why the leaders missed the mark in their handling of Tony--they had wrong attitudes that needed to be corrected or misunderstandings that needed to be clarified. Let's list some of those reasons:
a) One of the main reasons is as Mama Maria explains: "In the past many of our leaders were very very dictatorial, very merciless & very hard, too hard on people. So in trying to be more loving & merciful, some of them may have gone to the opposite extreme. They've got to try to strike more of a right balance."
b) Also, they may have thought that they would lose him if they really socked it to him & gave him an ultimatum to "get the victory or get out." They probably considered that this would be a big loss since he is talented & so much time has been invested in his training.
c) Maybe the leaders were overly merciful to Tony because he is one of our younger generation. They needed to be reminded & to fully understand that his youth is no excuse.
d) Knowing that lots of young people look up to Tony, they were probably concerned that other young people might stumble if Tony backslid. But concerning this, Grandpa said, "If they (other Family Members) believe them (Tony or other backsliders) more than they do us & are more loyal to them than us, let'm go!"
e) Tony's Shepherds confessed that he intimidated them, which made it very difficult for them to correct him.
f) Sometimes troublemakers in the Family get correction & don't like it, so they threaten to leave & cause trouble. This threat may be a cause of concern to the leaders who are counselling this person, as they don't want to risk unnecessary trouble or persecution, etc. But concerning this point, Grandpa says troublemakers or backsliders "always try to split & defeat & draw people away, & they have a better opportunity to do that inside. They're a greater security threat on the inside than on the outside. No matter how much they join our enemies & fight against us, they can't do as much damage outside as inside."

13) Mama Maria says that compared to Grandpa's Letter, her Letter seems very merciful & gentle. You may have noticed a difference in the two Letters. Did it make you wonder if maybe Mama Maria should have said what Grandpa said? Did it make you wonder why the Lord had both Mama Maria & Grandpa deliver an ultimatum to Tony or why both Letters were needed? Mama Maria has explained this point fully in a talk called "Different Strokes!" that you'll read soon, D.V., but in the meantime, we can at least list a few possible explanations here.
a) Mama Maria's & Grandpa's Letters cover basically the same points, but the main difference is the delivery, the way the message is expressed. The delivery is determined by such points as the choice of words used, the amount of explanation given, & the "tone" of the message (for example, whether it's calm, patient, angry, etc.).
b) Mama Maria deals with Tony like a mother would deal with her errant child--more gently--whereas Grandpa is like the father who comes in to lower the boom.
c) As Mama Maria pointed out in "Tony's Last Chance!", her Letter was not only a rebuke to Tony, but even more so a detailed analysis of Tony's OHR & an explanation to Tony & the entire Family of how unfounded Tony's complaints were, so of course it was presented differently than Grandpa's Letter.
d) As you will read later when you read the FSM about Tony's reaction to the Letters, it's obvious that Grandpa's rebuke was necessary, because Tony hadn't gotten the fear of the Lord sufficiently from Mama Maria's talk; he needed the sharp shock treatment to knock some sense into him.
* * *

Additional suggested reading:

"God Hates Murmuring!" (ML#1879, Vol.15)
"Dumps!" (ML#33, Vol.1)
"The Murmurer's Fate!" (Treasures)

Copyright (c) 1998 by The Family



Copyright (c) 1998 by The Family