Posted by on October 07, 2008 at 23:54:34
In Reply to: Re: Cult Suicides vs. Revolutionary Suicide posted by Doubtful on October 07, 2008 at 09:17:44:
I am going to answer both notes here as it is easier for both of us to discuss in one message, rather than switch between 2 or 3 of them.
Remember I am doing research here, gathering information, which is much more casual than a finished project which has all footnotes, etc.
First let's be careful of the use of the term "cult". This term arose after the Jonestown incident, before which alternative religious groups were classified as "new religions" not cults, and few thought of them as anything but a different manner of thinking.
Second issue, the second largest known murder-suicide related to a modern religion was a group affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church in Uganda, the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God with over 700 dead. To note there are several "cults" affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church. The wine and host itself has been referred to as a form of mass suicide drill, similar to the drills the PT held, the wine or host could be poisoned.
Next, the Heavanes Gate suicide differed from all other "cult" suicides in that it was the only one that was completely voluntary by all involved. Every other incident was a combination of suicides and forced suicide or murder. Thwe Solar Temple was especially a noted murder-suicide, not a mass suicide with murders as in Jonestown, and without the persecution and cause of the PT.
Next, not all "suicide cults" run drills or practice the mass suicide. The Faith Assembly just forbids its members to seek medical treatment, thus they die, mostly children from lack of medical care (you have seen these in the newspapers). Although improving the Jehovahs Witnesses refuse to allow blood transfusions, even to infants. Some groups including the CofG have a high number of suicides resulting from various kinds of abuse. The Way International had its own religous police force at its compounds, some compounds numbering over 6,000, and a habit of people who disagreed disappearing off the face of the earth, or dieing for lack of medical treatment, in favor of faith healing. (Not a police force one would want to be arrested by.) My point is that the term "suicide cult" can take different forms, it does not have to be taught in a classroom, or in a formalized ritual, many of these groups may only be a belief or an attitude that fosters death or suicide.
This statement "suicide was interpreted by Berg as a major source of the growing repression towards all religious minorities." is one of the bases for Revolutionary Suicide. The repression of a belief, and the statement against that repression.
I see Ricky's suicide very much as a statment against his abuse, and the abuse against other members of the CofG. If that is the case it is very much Revolutionary, a statment against an organization and its abuses. A formal drill or ritual is not necessary.
I see martyrdom as much different than suicide. In marytdom one is dieng for a noble cause they believe in, not just committing suicide. However, your point here is relating martyrdom to Revolutionary Suicide, perhaps there is a grey line, For example a group sees itself as being persecuted, are they committing Revoutionary Suicide for their cause, or are they martyrs, that is a difficult question, because perhaps in many ways the PT at Jonestown were martyrs for their cause, against the persecution of people who really believe in something different strong enough to die for it, even though they called it Revolutionary Suicide.
What is interesting is the difference of opinion among survivors. Some call it mass murder, not suicide, and others beleive Jonestown was the greatest time of their lives. Interesting views to read.
Berg did believe that the USSR would win the cold war, as did Jim Jones. Like the CoG, and other new religions, the groups did affiliate with other "new religions" and share various practices and beliefs. Catharsis came from Synanon, etc. These "new religious" relationships seem to have resulted in a sharing of belief systems.
I find the issue of persecution and idolization of those hated by the mianstream to be fascinatinig. This was definitely a part of the PT, and other similar groups, that was used to create paranoia among the membership, fear of the outside world, and perhaps rightly so in many cases. There is no doubt that many of the good deeds the PT members tried to accomplish were refused, and that members were being persecuted for their beliefs, and unjustly so by the outside.
This persecution was part of early Christianity, as is the communal aspect of many "new religions". The early Christians lived a communal lifestyle, going back to the early Orthodox and before that to the Essenes of Mt Carmel, for protection from persecution. This lifestyle was definitely what is called a Christian Communist belief system. Many members of utopian religions are looking for the early Christian belief known as Christian Communism, whilst their leadership are more concerned with control of the group which moves more toward the political from of communism. This leads to a gap between membership and leadership.
We should note that maryrdom or revolutionary suicide was used in early Christian times, going back to Massad, the suicides of over 900 Jewish Essenes (was it the Essenes?). Again we see the difference between the political belief of the Black Panthers and the religious belief used in the early days and today by groups such as PT and others.
I must get back to work, without proofreading, look to your reply!!!