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In Reply to: To whom it may concern: marina, ssam, etc. posted by ex-member on June 15, 2002 at 13:35:21:
Thanks for the detailed info. I posted something else below.
I agree with the reports on the history of the Catholic church. It is known that many of the Popes have been some of the worst offenders. Celibacy my ass, as my daughter would say. :)
The misogyny of the Church is definitely a problem and has created many problems in many ways.
I do believe, though, that there are many sincere priests who take the oath of celibacy seriously. I have known a few. (I mean that they have not had sex with others, but maybe do the solo thing etc) Whether celibacy is an idea of 'the devil' or not...I am not sure. I don't know the devil so well. :)
I do not think if the big issue is an issue of Catholicism per se. I think it is more an issue of a form of Christianity in general, this mortification of the body, the flesh, with its subsequent resulting neuroses in many many individuals. Let me give you a case in point: while I appreciate most of what you said about Catholic...let me see, I will use the word "culture", coming from a Catholic country I have to say I have never seen such a body-phobic culture as the Protestant culture that shaped and made the US. (many more posts can be written about this :)
So I think the big lie, or the bigger lie lies in the various forms of undue or unnatural repressions dictated in various spiritual orders. That is, when those arbitrary diktats are unequivocally preached (and demanded) as the ONLY way to know, serve, live spirituality and a godly life.
Is the Catholic abuse any different, though, than the abuses that took place in the Hari Krishna communities where too much power and lack of supervision and accountability was given to ppl together with too much repression? I have been quite close to members or ex-members of various groups (for observational research reasons) and I am telling you, some of these diktats can produce pretty neurotic people no matter which 'religious' brand they may carry as their label. I know a guy who has been a Hari Krishna for years (since he was 18 and is in his late 40's now) who for ONE sexual act with a woman feels compelled to do I don't know how many rounds of chanting, the equivalent of chanting all night.
Compare that instead with the guy in the F who feels if he screws 64 sisters (forget the chanting) he attains more spirituality because his prophet told him so. :)
All of this to say, the many diktats on *the ONLY way to be spiritual,* which in some way or other tamper or want to have undue influence on one's sexual core, are in my opinion a tool used to enslave, subjugate and ruin many people's lives under the ploy of 'liberating' them or helping them become more spiritual in many forms of religion. (it is all in REVERSE, you see? :)
And lastly, do we have stats on the Buddhist monks and their rate of....let me see, I will use the word 'failure,' in their monastic vows? And do we have gender stats as well, concerning women?
Just freewheeling, but there are many good topics of discussion that this could generate.
