In Reply to: This is what I mean - the details matter to me posted by Thinker on April 05, 2003 at 19:44:51:
and here I was listening to how everything I said was "rhetoric" (such a favorite word these days to discredit whoever you take issue with - oh, and I'm speaking in passive, just in case you were wondering) and starting to believe it when you ended up your speech with pure rhetoric yourself with "Some people buy into the mass-consumption stuff Bush throws out." And some people buy into what the tabloid media throws out about Bush. Now if you want me to listen to you, don't throw rhetoric back at me, or I'm inclined to not listen as well.
Gee, I'm sorry I got the $32,000 figure wrong. So what. What does it matter if it is $32,000 or $50,000? He may even pay them more and it's just not told. As they say, if you are buried 6 ft or 100 ft, you're still buried. The point remains the same. And so sorry I said Palestine instead of PLO. Again, I don't think that detracts from what I was referring to. And you're losing me again with the rhetoric that war makes and keeps presidents and Bush's ratings go up.... I don't buy into that. I believed that with Berg and it's a favorite line that's been said many years down the road. Why should I believe it now? You have proof? Clinton got two terms out of pandering to Hollywood (it's common knowledge that Hollywood gave huge sums of money and publically supported him - just in case you think I'm throwing things around again without any details and it's just "rhetoric") and leftist thinking - that's my opinion of course - and having that leftist permissive attitude that allowed terrorists elements to operate so freely. Clinton didn't start a war but maybe he should have and we wouldn't have had our shores attacked as they were. And Bush Sr. lost the 2nd election even though his ratings were extremely high with the Gulf war. It affected our economy and the voters forgot about the success of the Gulf war. So, I'm having a hard time with that piece of propoganda.
And, of course it was the whole Arab world that wanted Israel out, I guess I thought that went without saying. But you're right, people forget history and things have to be spelled out. It's still a fact that Saddam got together MILITARILY with several other countries to oust Israel, including the PLO.
I also joined a cult that took away my reasoning and I also treasure sound reasoning, you're not the only one. When I see so much fluff today being passed off as sound reasoning, it scares me. And this coming from learned people who claim to be the elite and have the best critical thinking skills on the planet. And details matter, yes, but it depends on what and whether the details are a product of spin or important pieces left out so as to make it sound one way or another. Michael Moore's recent documentary is a classic example. And yes, I will check into the U.N. and embargo issue, I definitely will not take your word for it. I have listened to all of this for the past few years and then when I go and check it out, I find out there is often other important pieces of information left out that was just not bothered to be added in, that changed the whole picture for me. I have come to my conclusions by carefully picking these things apart. I also do not like being told one piece of information designed to stir up frenzy like tabloid journalism. And quite frankly, I'm sick of the spin I've been hearing and being asked to swallow by a huge faction of people. That makes me angrier than any war.
Sorry you think I'm talking out of my ass, but I don't think I am. I'm also sorry I don't have the time or energy to do a class on world history that would give you the exact details you need. I guess I'll just stop talking since you just think it's all "rhetoric."