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In Reply to: Re: Maria and Peter's apology - don't they get it? posted by anovagrrl on December 02, 2003 at 07:35:24:
I guess you are talking about prior to WWII when America entered the war? As far as Germans being collectively reponsible as a people for what happened to Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled,political prisoners, and so on, many that went to camps were from their own population. The "cleansing" began and was most intense at home. So how could Germans be collectively responsible for what the government did to their own citizens as well? Even the Nuremberg trials took into account who should be charged with war crimes. Why would all Germans collectively be responsible? Many of them were against what was going on and would risk their own lives and possibly that of their families to assist those who were targeted by the government either because of their handicap, race or lifestyle. The guilt that they experience, imo, is largely survivors guilt in that they were not all so gutsy to defy their leaders who would likely kill them or put them in a camp too!
Regarding mothers that look the other way when a child is sexually abused, incested or otherwise, the majority of these women were abuse victims themselves. There are so many different dynamics at work here. So I won't even go there in this post.
When it comes to FG youth that joined, what was presented was something which appeared admirable at that time. (When FG were youth.) The control and indoctrination were absolute. I see FG youth as having had much more akin to Stockholm Syndrome. Especially as families were busted up and leverage such as losing your family altogether or "God will kill you" if you leave, etc. came into play. That together with belief that God could and would really do this (reinforced by testimonials.) I would also say that I was not around for the teen camps or combos. Atrocities occurred before then, but not to that degree for the most part and in most places. I don't see the FG youth as having looked the other way. I see them as having been convinced that they were absolutely wrong to have doubts about the crap the top was teaching and reinforcing. Which was not, for many, what later became overt doctrine. Also, I realize that some FGs who stayed in longer were forced into sex with children. What a horror for all concerned. And it cost lives of all "G's".
I think there are many factors that need to be taken into consideration when it comes to responsibility... In every one of the areas you discussed.
Ignorance and survival are two very different things.
