In Reply to: Re: A reply to all posted by Jules on December 10, 2003 at 10:32:39:
In your first incident, the woman comes across child pornography on his computer. This is clearly a person who is a pedophile by nature and did not engage in something in the family that he abhored, and you are absolutely right in saying that this behavior is part of who he is and the woman would be very right to set up a sting with law enforcement on him. It was not the family that made this man a repeat offender/pedophile. It was in his nature. Good that he was prosecuted. Pedophiles that have left the group have no business around kids anywhere. (in their job, in a family, etc.) The point was given that there were some in the family that were PEDOPHILES BY NATURE. No one has argued this point. This means they would be the same after they got out and they will be the same for the rest of their lives unless science comes up with some sort of re-wiring of thought cures. They don't need to be out in public preying on anyone. That is my opinion.
The second incident is mis-directed blame on the part of the mother, to the absolute detriment of the victims: her children. I had posted before that I worked with families where there was child sexual abuse. This is something that mothers frequently do who have been incested themselves and then find their children to have been molested. But not all mothers that have been molested do this. I referred to the movie "Bastard Out of Carolina" in another post, Where the mother left her children when one was raped by her husband, in order to be with the rapist husband. It is very sad and very harmful to the child. But in reality it happens more often then people would care to know. And the reality as well is that if the mother chooses the perp over her own child and opts for the rapist, it is certainly to the advantage of the child to be away from the mother who is so incompetent to protect her child or divorce her ties to the perp for the sake of her child. At the same time, it is definitely not the story of every woman who was molested and who sees her child molested or gets an idea that it is happening. Many mothers are shocked, blame themselves for not "getting it" sooner, and then they get out of the situation with their children, incl. prosecution, and or moving, etc. Unfortunately, the legal system in many places is far too lenient on perpetrators. But Good for the parents that do protect their children! I loved that movie "Dolores Claiborne".
Regarding your next paragraph, I am not sure where you are getting that anyone here recently is advocating for children who have been abused to "forgive and forget" what their perpetrators have done.
I don't see any of the anger in what you have just expressed as being misdirected. And I AM NOT AN ABUSER LIKE MARIA. Neither do i in any way shape or form deserve that comparison. I spoke up against abuse in the family, (much milder abuse) and was dealt with severely. On more than one occasion. But I left before anything like the combos, sharing schedules, or for that matter, teens that were SGs even existed in the family.
When I speak of "mis-directed" anger, I am talking in general ABOUT generalized blame of SGA abuse on all FGA. The points I brought up were about this topic and not about any individual or their own opinions. I, and MANY other FGAs did the best we could with where we were at. And it was an act of courage and bravery to defy the family when we felt God could kill us and our kids for that matter because of our "rebellion".
Another thing is how Berg has talked in one letter about how the FGs "those dirty hippies" brought in the out of control sexual stuff. Well that is really WRONG. First of all the family in those days did not even allow adults to have "lustful thoughts" or hold hands or date. (although in hindsight, it is a known fact that something much different occurred with berg and his closest leaders, not to mention what he did to his daughters. This was not known by the vast majority of FGs in the beginning.) Berg himself scapegoated the FGAS for his own perversions which he created and reinforced in the family with any that worked around him.
Some of the things I am posting about now are in tandem with what I have researched via an expert on "ultra-authority" and with another expert, a Dr. of Psychology and professor. Both of which are "feminist", so to speak.
It is not with the intent to discount anyone's individual experience. And yes, this does mean FGA too.
I can say that I am sorry that any of these types of abuse occurred in the family, and I can say without reservation that I did not personally participate in it. But I do know some who did, it was not in their "wiring" to do so, and they abhorred what they did both when it occurred and after they got out. And the cost was their life. I am for recovery for all that survived the family. I don't see that happening by ignoring blanket statements that seem to implicate all "FGs" as perpetrators. Neither do I see the discussion about these different perspectives as anything forcing anyone else's opinion. What is presented is something to think about and apply it or chunk it. Or talk it out to understand more where the other person is coming from, as any of us CHOOSE to answer to it.
What would you expect of FGs in general? Is it not enough to say that in hindsight, we find it tragic that what occurred with youth did occur and was very wrong? Are you saying that FGs that in spite of indoctrination, resisted complying, even spoke against, are also guilty just like the perps that did it? Or guilty by association of being in the group, the same way as someone would be that willingly sought out child pornography on line or at a book store or had those innate desires? Maybe I don't understand you. Maybe you do not understand me. Maybe you can paraphrase what you are hearing me say to you, using your own words. That way I can clarify whether that is what I am meaning to say. And why I say it.