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Re: Obedience and compliance

Posted by Yvonne on May 22, 2005 at 05:13:36

In Reply to: Re: Obedience and compliance posted by Piano Man on May 22, 2005 at 03:15:39:

Ok Piano Man, to take your points and answer them, trying for understanding rather than argument:

I said to OT2: ’Yes, I think it would be an interesting subject to explore - but I am surprised [shouldn't be so naive I guess] at how vitriolic folk are when they don't like what others say. Or perhaps someone gets a word or two wrong’.

How on earth does this infer that you have been vitriolic to me or anyone? I said 'folk' not 'Piano Man' – don’t take things so personally.

There is nothing wrong with you asking me to post some of my writing. However, when you write for Academic Journals they then have the copyright. So I can’t post my papers here. Also, the language and style is very formal - for psychologists rather than ‘lay’ people. You’ve seen how my language has already ‘offended’.

I also said; ’It is so hard to write anything that is not 'party line' here and on other ex-member sites without offending. I have been taken to task for using the language I use on a daily basis, for reminding people to be kind, for being an 'expert', for asking for help in understanding.....

What happens if I put forward an idea that is not totally 'acceptable' - do I get vilified? ‘

I would ask you to take the question about vitriol in context with the paragraph above.

You said; ‘I don't expect you to apologize for being an expert, but when you call yourself that, saying that you have expertise (professionally speaking) in this highly controversial field of cults/new religious movements, then I don't see what the problem is asking you to post some of your work, or at least direct us to it so we can benefit from your ideas , one way or another’.

I never said I was an expert in cults; I did say and I am an expert in working with clients with substance misuse problems and mental health issues. But, my research area is cults - I have published in this area and my work is in the public domain.

Now, this board is meant to be one where it is ok to be anonymous – no? So how does putting my name, where I do my research and my professional identity work with that? I chose to walk the tight rope of not pretending to be psychologically naïve, letting folk know I have some expertise – but also making it clear that I am here as an ex-member not a psychologist [other than the fact I am a psychologist and I don’t stop being one at weekends and evenings!].

You said: ‘And I don't mean just interjecting snippets of your opinion here and there, sometimes offending people in the process’. So, my snippets of information sometimes offend [I try very hard not to offend, as I know the language I use can be misread sometimes, and I come from a culture and belief system in which causing offence is not ok, if I do offend I sincerely apologise]. The inference from this sentence is that by putting in comments rather than a treatise I offend; why should I be treated any differently than any other poster here? Most posts are small ‘snippets’ posted here and there.

When I asked; ‘What happens if I put forward an idea that is not totally 'acceptable' - do I get vilified?" You replied “Well, hopefully what happens is that there is a debate in which your idea may very well find its critics, maybe even some will go overboard and vilify you, but that's the nature of the beast, being a public internet chat board’. I don’t understand why this has to be the case, what is it about public internet chat boards that means its ok to disregard normal standards of politeness, just because a person disagrees with another [and no before you assume so, I am not referring to you here].

Piano Man, it seems as if we are ‘missing’ each other in some way here, how do we put this right or do we just agree to differ?

I do not have the time, energy or wish to argue with you about my style, language or expertise. I love debate, but not when it becomes personal and I love to be given evidence that teaches me new things, i don't have a problem with being shown I am wrong, its one way to learn. But having read the boards here and elsewhere, I do wonder if sometimes the reason that we [not you and I, but generally] miss in our communications is because this goes across countries and cultures and there are differences in meanings and language.