The jury's still out

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Posted by WC on May 31, 2010 at 16:18:36

In Reply to: Re: I hope this is clearer then posted by AndyN on May 31, 2010 at 11:37:00:

This post was lightly edited on June 2, 2010

Looking at how you answered the query by another board user, it would seem you either have an inability or unwillingness to speak plainly, or both.

So it's my turn to ask for a straight answer: are you in or out?

I will be speaking plainly here, which you do not seem to want to do, and clarify my earlier statement:

We hadn't yet stated that we know for a fact you are a current member, but I can tell you we were close to reaching that conclusion, and we haven't ruled it out.

According to what you've actually written so far, I would most certainly categorize you as an apologetic, and we do have an official bias against apologetics in many (but not all) senses of the word.

You wrote: "Whether someone is seriously suspected a current TFI member or not, IMO we ought to curb bias."

I would have to disagree with you there. We are biased, and will remain so. We don't want to be biased against people (in or out or neither) as much as where people are coming from (apologetic to the point of propagating ideas about TFI non-culpability in crimes). For that reason, we will not be favorable to "pro-TFI" statements and opinions voiced on this site, most of which originate from current members anyway. Member or ex-member, we will not favor (but that does not necessarily mean we will censor or block) posts encouraging people to just accept things in TFI as they are, to leave things unstirred, to allow the continuation of TFI's deceptive practices, to ignore TFI's failure to redress the wrongful things they have done.

You wrote; "although I think of TFI *system* as a typical corrupt control system, I prefer to look at individual rank and file members as for the most part being victims and caught within the system and in many, perhaps most cases unable to leave on their own."

Another more distinctly ex-member view however, is that these so-called innocents are enablers, and guilty of supporting this corrupt system and allowing ongoing crimes to go unchecked. As Jules of MovingOn put it, the longer you were in, the more guilty you can be considered of collaboration with criminals. It's a broad brush to paint with, but it's a very valid way of seeing it.

re. "system," another point which was addressed in earlier dialogs with you and others, which I agree with completely, is the fact that it's always very convenient to blame things on the "system" which is a very family-esque cop-out way of seeing things, but you and I, we make up the system. We are part of the system. At the risk of over-simplifying it, we, as individuals, are responsible for what goes on in the "system."

You wrote: "Pretty much everyone who leaves TFI after 20 or 30 years *will* have a huge load of baggage…a large part of their mental wiring is inverted and set in concrete for years to come and to expect them to change overnight is futile. Therefore I suggest they be met where they are at, not where they could be in 20 years or so."

I agree with you there. I realize that on our site, there can be pressure on the newly-exited to "toe ex-member the party line" as you put it, and that may be something they cannot handle. But I still feel it is not something we should necessarily soften our stance on. There was another site before, populated by many such half-in-half-outs, "para-COGs" as someone called them, and that is definitely not what we want here for this site. I would say that is a very bad place to be mentally, and it is better to get definite about leaving cult thinking when you leave. Having said that however, I will also say that that site served its purpose of meeting people where they were at very well, and helped many people exit the cult mentally, gradually, over a period of time—they moved on when they were ready. It is quite possible we are alienating people in that regard.

You wrote: "there is not much else concrete to go on, only hunches and circumstances. As you noted, I have f.x. posted from many different locations, but that is anecdotal."

I would have to say we have much, much more to go on than that, but I'm going to keep my cards close to my chest.

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