Posted by on February 25, 2011 at 17:30:26
In Reply to: Re: not very refined...just some thoughts posted by Farmer on February 25, 2011 at 07:39:26:
Dear Farmer:
It’s always a distinct pleasure to communicate with you. You always seem to show a lot of class towards folks, even when they are rude, belligerent, arrogant, etc. I hope that I am not, with anyone—looks like my arguments didn’t suit CB—oh, well. :-(
Glad to be back!
I think we get along well because we have many similarities, besides the common TF background—curbside “scholars”? Hey—whatever I know for real and for true is a result of God cleaning up my act and giving me a love for Him; through His presence and His Word. Thanks for the good wishes/prayers. I’m with you on the “manual” point of view—very practical, and intellectually honest, IMO.
I believe that “many are called but few are chose”, and that that applies to God’s children, and the Devil’s children. Matthew 23: 15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the “child of hell” than yourselves.
I think it’s a process for both, and that that process was broken, when, for instance, people like you and I left TF. I see it as entirely free will, not Calvinistic robot-“predestination”.
I believe that the “all Israel shall be saved” refers to a very few Jews, still miraculously alive during the Tribulation, who turn to their Messiah, not all Jews for all time—that would definitely make God a respecter of persons, and He cannot be—that would deny His nature.
If one begins with the “false premise” of Calvinism, only false conclusions can be reached.
I really love God’s Word, too.
And, I like CS Lewis’ saying that foolishness, even when it is about God, is still merely foolishness.
I get the “creeps” when I hear SOME people calling themselves “bishop”, apostle”, etc.(usually TV minister, whose "doctrine and manner of life"--2Tim 3:10--I could never know, nor could just about anybody else!).
There are certain Biblical definitions for all of that—all very high standards—where and how you minister (somewhere no one else ever has fro apostles), how much of God’s power accompanies you “with signs and wonders following”, and so on—it’s all in the Word—we just never saw it while in TF—that’s why we stayed—because there WAS originally the reality of the presence of Jesus Christ, originally.
Most of us didn’t sense that “the glory of the Lord had departed” and we lost our way, because we chose Berg over the plain words of the Bible. I read it every day of my membership. I even stayed up all night to read it. That’s why I left early; I am sure.
I am only open to what I sense in the Spirit and can easily confirm in the Bible, ever since leaving.
And, I know that Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1Cor12-14, etc., point out that God is the One who chooses and promotes, and anoints; period. I just seek to be led by Him.
When I have seen revival, there is always the “real thing”, accompanied by fleshly religious imitation, and also demonic counterfeit.
That’s WHY Jesus said the parable of the sower as THE key to all the other parables.
And that’s WHY, in Mtt25, Mk13 and Lk 21, He said that the counterfeit would come in MASSIVE WAYS, in the last days.
They would obviously BE COUNTERFEITING SOMETHING REAL!!!
Considering “holy laughter”—“if” the real existed—“speaking as a fool”, as Paul said—I KNOW it does (the demonic does, as you said and as I already know, considering my Yoga background!), including all the New Testament “joys” about things like ”joy unspeakable and full of glory”, and Old Testament stuff like “in Your presence is fullness of joy”—what does Biblical joy actually look like?
Please--try looking up all the verses on joy and asking yourself that question honestly—I have, and I have experienced it, and I did not “manufacture it”, or get it from an “unholy spirit”—I do know the difference by now!!! ;-)
I really like this Old Testament verse:
“Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf unstopped; then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the speechless sing for joy...And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon their heads; they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. (Isaiah 35:5-6, 10)“
OT2