In Reply to: Re: Re to Ray on Dilema :Post and apology from below posted by ray on December 10, 2002 at 06:19:45:
I guess you are not really interested in an apology. That is ok. It is not easy being us.
Your comment regarding my struggle to understand seems somewhat like a point or a dig. To begin with, you are not in my position as I am not in yours. I really I can't expect you to view things as I do, as with the flip side.
I am involved in supporting ex members because they seek me out and I don't have the heart not to help. One of my positions regarding helping is not to be forceful or directive. Your context in this comment seemed somewhat harsh to me, that is a bit hurtful to me personally but I will get over it. I am a survivior what does not kill me makes me stronger. (lol) By the way this point was in a post to Goth and I can't remember involving that issue in our posts. She was wondering about how I have supported FGA's.
My position on acting against homes is the same as many SG's. Those that abused criminally have to be held accountable, no matter what, it has to happen. I will, however tell you one thing I know about child abuse investigations; If people come forward to accept accountability there is hope for less traumatic validation of the victims, correction of the offenders and possible reconcilation where appropriate, such as between victims and their parents or extended families. If they do not come forward, particularly in something as complex as the family's situation, justice can be very aggresive. The more aggressive the system perceives it has to be to remedy the situation the more difficult it will be for all concerned. This is particularly true with large cases such as the family.
I hesitate to detail all the possibilities to you because I am not sure now if you really care to know and I am not willing to outline my understanding of the issue if you are not really interested in my views. My apology to you was real, from my heart and I meant it. I spent quite a bit of time writing it and judging by your response it may not of been of any use to you.
If you look at your own points regarding dismantling the family you will see it is a huge issue on a "macro" scale involving many complicated issues for large numbers of people. I can tell you that observation of myself and my fellow ex members over many years indicates to me that leaving the family, and its resulting issues, can also be a complicated matter on a "micro" or individual scale. As a result there is a struggle on my part to comprehend the post Davidito issues from a helping perspective at times. The ethical and moral issues seem pretty clear overall but how individuals relate to them is not always clear at times. Another example for me is that one could possibly ask why didn't people, myself included, wise up when the racist messages in the Money explodes, Israel invaded and other such letters came out. Oh yes, one other thing that still offends me is the comments about Tenerife, when those two jumbo jets collided and killed so many and berg was so joyous/smug about it. That was very ugly on his part and I regret my lack of discernment in missing the clear indicator of the serious internal problems with Berg displayed by his attitude. I think, when I really look at the issues of getting out, everything seems simple at times but also is complicated. [Berg is insane get out now! Hal open the the Pod door now!!] Sci Fi 2001 ]
I also compare the issues to the act of the Shuttle successfully taking off for space. It seems straight forward observing the quick clean takeoff and determined line of flight but there are millions of moving parts on the shuttle backed by a truly massive industrial structure to support it. Sometimes I see the simplicity and complexity of human relationships in the same way. The love-hate, joys, pleasures, hurts and offenses between human beings may seem quite straight forward in outward expression at times. In reality, however, the way we humans act towards others can acutally become notably complicated by the underlying interactive dynamics that drive relationship as they wind their way through the course of a person's life.
Well I also hope you have a good day. God knows we could use a few of those.