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Posted by ray on December 10, 2002 at 15:47:24

In Reply to: Re: Re to Ray on Dilema :Post and apology from below posted by Rocky on December 10, 2002 at 13:15:11:

rocky, first off, the personal stuff. what i was getting at w/ the counseling thing that offended you was to draw a distinction between your implications& my outlook on any role in the exmem community (as you brought up the issue of me not having a right to a voice and "to judge" or words to that effect.) i do not see anything like some body, official or unofficial , as your post, and other statements seem to imply. you might have something like that cooking, i don't know. but i'm just a guy. don't want to be judge. just sharing thoughts, which i realize can be a bit like pissing into the wind. i did think your attitude was not only wrong in its details, but also in its concept. and yeah, i guess i did use words to try and hurt you. oops.not according to mt.5. sorry. just telling you, your words scorched me too.and the comments that ensued added to my "pleasure".aren't apologies a bitch?

the issues: i still do not have a clue if you factor in the thought reform issue into any of your thinking. did you read my post to jules about the court case here ? if you are counselling exmems, it seems a vital piece of the picture. the issues of why people stayed thru kohoutec (heck, i think dr. agemian rejoined after that if i am not mistaken?), the hateful antisemitic stuff, ffing, dito, ljr, the pledges etc cannot be understood at all w/o a grasp of that piece, imo. not a "get out of jail free" card but definitely essential to a reasonable understanding. your thoughts?

you didn't seem to adress the 2nd pt at all. how to "dismantle", what actions you would take against your garden variety field home etc. i get the general idea of your goal w/ individual child abusers. but that was never an issue foe me. it's the question of how you relate to the ord. fammem that puzzles me. the "at all costs"...what do you see, a war of attrition ? do you think given fam doctrine and history such actions will work? questions...if you have reasonable answers maybe you can convince me, for whatever little that may be worth to anyone. tho "dismantle" seems it will take either a catastrophe of waco proportions, a schism of some type, or direct intervention by God. m&p aren't coming in w/ their hands up. and there are enough inside w/ a taste for koolaid to keep it going to the bitter end.imo.

enough.. be blessed. and, shalom.